Theories about backcappage

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[LeoPhone]

this is why backcapping happens:
at near the end of a game, it sometimes happens that all players just have a few units left on a huge map. the losing team basicly starts backcapping, but the winning team cant find them becouse there are so few units left.

something like some free scout cars spawn at the end of a game, or infantry that moves slow in enemy territory when you have less that 10 pop on the field would work.

[Ununoctium]

Leo don't ragepost after losing

You played a 4v3 with 4 lvl 8's vs 2 lvl7s and 1 lvl8.
Your team had 1 humel 3 panthers 1 jagd 1 tiger and 1 kt.

It was your teams choice to save the majority of heavy tanks for the end and sacrifice infantry instead.

Backcapping only happens if you let it happen, It's as viable as anything else.

[NCOIC]

While I've been a victim of BC and it can be abused I think that avoiding combat is actually the smarter tactic. Why attack into the enemy's strengths? Now whether I myself have the finesse to pull it off is debatable but I think that if you can bypass a strong point and cut it off that is the better option. We did it island hopping, we did it on the tactical, operational and strategic level in europe too.

I am sure that Sun Tzu had one of his great truths that relate to this tactic but I can't recall it

BTW I think that EIRR is the victim of an identity crisis.. how much of a game vs simulation of tactical combat should it be? When you try and use real world or historically accurate tactics against too many game elements it can drive one crazy.... because EIRR is deceptive in that it has realistic graphics, is based on real events and authentic equipment but things are simplified for game play. So expectations can be confusing... am I playing a war simulation or a game?  Sigh. I like things to be more in the realistic vein as possible.... we have awesome models of tanks that really existed but they might be arguably too dumbed down for the sacrifice of gameplay...  Bummer IMHO

[Sixpack]

Leo don't ragepost after losing

You played a 4v3 with 4 lvl 8's vs 2 lvl7s and 1 lvl8.
Your team had 1 humel 3 panthers 1 jagd 1 tiger and 1 kt.

It was your teams choice to save the majority of heavy tanks for the end and sacrifice infantry instead.

Backcapping only happens if you let it happen, It's as viable as anything else.

I am level 8, since when?
And that guy dropped out later (pretty much when most of the game was over), not in the beginning.
If it had been 4v3 we would have steamrolled you.

And I went the other way, sacrificing armour first and infantry in the end, I just shouldn t have recrewed that one of the 4! howitzers you used, you guys had 3 on at the same time. And we had 0 organisation later, everyone did his own little thing.....

[Groundfire]

And we had 0 organisation later, everyone did his own little thing.....

IMO, this is why backcapping happens.

I still dont entirely understand how backcapping is abuseable btw. (apart from armor co. light vehicles capping which is incredibly powerfull and not pop efficient to combat late game)

Its a couple of infantry squads running around behind the lines.
ffs, go find em and kill em.

If you have trouble with that, go watch this and take some notes...

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=12082.msg205887;topicseen#new

[VERTIGGO]

I think it's pretty obvious if both of my teammates were annihilated..

Oh well, I still think capping is part of the game (and so is back-capping).  Think about it in vCoH.  You're playing Angoville and you're fighting on the east side (you control the west half), but then your opponent goes for a decap of your connecting west-side strategic point.  Isn't that the same as backcapping?  Instead of pop, you lose resources from that back cap.  vCoH resources = EiR population pretty much.

My point is, the back cap was done to take the focus off of a certain point of the map because in that back cap, the player that got cut off would probably go and try to get his point back.  In EiR, if you get back capped you should go see what's up.  If you leave a back cap alone in EiR, you end up at a pop disadvantage, just like if you leave a back cap alone in vCoH, you end up at a severe resource disadvantage.

In vCOH its easy to defend the rear. Everyone including AI mines supply points, and with a fixed location and LOS, offmaps and quick reaction forces can easily protect against it. In EIRR, however, it's far too easy to sweep around with a few quick vehicles and cap while running away from any interception that's the difference. It is a similar setup, but that as well as the hasty countdown to the "end" makes it work totally different. Even if you're back-capped in vCOH, you have time to go retake those territories with what armies you already have, even if the resources and pop are crunched, you're not shackled by a timer which will "delete" your units if you take too long.

The other thing is the map setup. Honestly, when the max pop room holds 3 medium tanks at most, and only 2 heavies, the maps we play on are far too big to adequately implement this type of gameplay. When your chasing the timer, even if I had my ostwind and pumas at that time, I wouldn't have the time to find all of the backcapping infantry, and forget the halftracks. Does anyone realise that no german unit that can damage a halftrack can catch it? The M3 speed is 7, which is faster than every german vehicle except the pathetic bikes. If they had maneuvered well enough, we literally could not have caught them no matter what we had on the field. The only way to counter that strategy would have been a slow deliberate combing of our entire side of the map, which can't happen anyway when the timer is running lower and lower.

[Smokaz]

I bet Sun Tzu stacked.

[Ununoctium]

just remove capping from the T17 due to its superspeed.

[jackmccrack]

If there's an obstacle on the road when I'm driving, I drive around it. If the highway is closed, I find a detour. I guess you could say I'm "backcapping" the shit out of the roads. I'm usurping the laws of physics by finding another way around a seemingly unassailable obstacle.

[VERTIGGO]

just remove capping from the T17 due to its superspeed.

The M3 is faster than the T17, and it can carry multiple squads which make capping faster. I agree the T17 cap is lame but the halftrack is even harder to catch.

BTW I'm not sure what the plan was, but isn't allowing capping from inside vehicles so that you can cap even if your callins deploy in transport? It seems that it was implemented for EIRR because some strategies involve motorizing your infantry, but it's now abused because the HTs can zip around behind enemy lines while capping.

[jackmccrack]

Armor Doctrine has the ability to let light vehicles capture territory. It's been around for a very long time. Why is it suddenly an issue for you now.

[jackmccrack]

An M3 filled with dudes is dangerous only if you have gaps in your line. On a map like Schjindel it is guaranteed that you will have gaps.

[VERTIGGO]

If there's an obstacle on the road when I'm driving, I drive around it. If the highway is closed, I find a detour. I guess you could say I'm "backcapping" the shit out of the roads. I'm usurping the laws of physics by finding another way around a seemingly unassailable obstacle.

That's only because everyone assumes that there are only two options, to win or backcap. That's the whole reason we want to fix the mechanics. Winning the battle should involve engaging the enemy whether head on or by encircling and infiltrating. If people just want to rack up victories without risking their units, make a game mode called "pp dance" to see who can cap the fastest. It's just pathetic that such a gimmicky strategy it's become such an integral part of players' gameplans.

[wildsolus]

how is backcapping not risking your units?

[Ununoctium]

how is backcapping not risking your units?

if you retreat its through everything in your way. backcapping with t17 or in a halftrack is a little different. let the m8 have its capping its not like its a supercannon

[jackmccrack]

That's only because everyone assumes that there are only two options, to win or backcap. That's the whole reason we want to fix the mechanics. Winning the battle should involve engaging the enemy whether head on or by encircling and infiltrating. If people just want to rack up victories without risking their units, make a game mode called "pp dance" to see who can cap the fastest. It's just pathetic that such a gimmicky strategy it's become such an integral part of players' gameplans.

You assume that backcapping means a team is losing. Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Sometimes the best way to beat a superior force is to avoid it.

[VERTIGGO]

If you read the OP, like I said, it's not suddenly an issue; I've been pondering this dilemma for a long time. The Armor doc cappage works very differently in vCoH. It's terribly easy to mine the points and to see whats coming because of LOS. EIRR doesn't work with it very well; it simply lends more encouragement to light vehicle spam, which we don't need more of.

I agree that it's not as much of a threat on small maps, but 3v3s are always on huge maps, (like we really have a choice of maps anymore) and even 120 pop is not enough to cover an entire large map. In vCoH you're running 400+ pop on maps that big. That's the difference.

[AmPM]

Actually, the easiest way to beat a backcap is to just break its supply, you don't even need to hunt the unit down. Once that supply sector is cut they can no longer cap, send a squad to recap the sectors and call it done.

I know it requires a bit of effort and thought on your part, and anything besides attacking at the enemy strongpoint goes against your e-honor, but it does a good job of simulating an attack on your supply lines. Let the enemy run rampant behind your lines at your own risk.

[Pak88mm]

That's only because everyone assumes that there are only two options, to win or backcap. That's the whole reason we want to fix the mechanics. Winning the battle should involve engaging the enemy whether head on or by encircling and infiltrating. If people just want to rack up victories without risking their units, make a game mode called "pp dance" to see who can cap the fastest. It's just pathetic that such a gimmicky strategy it's become such an integral part of players' gameplans.

You assume that backcapping means a team is losing. Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Sometimes the best way to beat a superior force is to avoid it.

like avoiding playing good players right....

[jackmccrack]

Exactly.