EIRR Vet - Engineers

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[Tymathee]

I've been wanting to do this for a while. I think a lot of vet needs looking at and changing, maybe prices too, so I thought I'd start small at first and go to engineers, depending on how this goes, I'll go onto mainline infantry, support weapons, light vehicles, tank and tank destroyers and then heavy and super heavies.

Engineer Price and Vet

Engineers 110 mp 3 pop
Vet 1     Received damage 0.85
Vet 2    Accuracy 1.15, Received Accuracy 0.9, Received Suppression 0.85
Vet 3    Health 1.1, Damage 1.2

Sappers 180 mp 4 pop
Vet 1     Received damage 0.85
Vet 2    Accuracy 1.15, Received Accuracy 0.9
Vet 3    Health 1.1, Damage 1.2

Pioneers 110 mp 2 pop
Vet 1     Received damage 0.85
Vet 2    Accuracy 1.15, Received Accuracy 0.9, Health 1.2
Vet 3    Health 1.1, Damage 1.2

PE - Don't really have engineering units...Luftwaffe and PzGrens were able to build at least wire and bags and then roadblocks with upgrades but it's not in EIR so we'll focus on the other 3.

Now, all vet levels are pretty much the same across the board but they all have difference uses. Engineers get used a lot to crew and you rarely see one unless someone knows they're defending or for triages.

Pioneers are used in a lot of AI duty with their flamethrowers because of their higher health (70, sappers, 60, engineers 55) and better ability than engineers to resist suppression, even from allied hmg's. While with the allied engineer, you spit in its direction and it goes down. Sappers are also good at resisting suppression but they're mainly used in an anti tank role and you rarely see them build or put down mines, so their vet should be more specilized vs the anti tank role that they're mainly used fori.

So here's my idea for a change in the vet.

Engineers
Vet 1     Received Suppression 0.85 (because even with lower damage, they still die very fast)
Vet 2    Faster Build Speed or Extra Mine/Demo when Bought. Vet 2    Accuracy 1.15, Received Accuracy 0.9
Vet 3    Health 1.1, Damage 1.2, Received Damage 0.85

Sappers
Vet 1     Received Damage 0.85
Vet 2    Accuracy 1.15, Received Accuracy 0.9, Reload 1.10
Vet 3    Health 1.1, Damage 1.2

Pioneers
Vet 1     Received Accuracy 0.85
Vet 2    Accuracy 1.15, Received Damage 0.9, 2nd Man Gains Flamethrower, or Cool Down 0.9
Vet 3    Health 1.1, Damage 1.2

Just some thoughts. Discuss, give some ideas of your own, this is just a long over due talk I think. I've always believed that all sides shouldn't be mirrored on their unit type because each unit is used differently, so while one unit may gain a huge advantage from one thing, another unit may see very little change form the same vet upgrade. i.e. Sherman with +20% penetration will be much more effective than a p4 wiwth +20% penetration.

[Nijo]

sounds great and i love my engineers

the only thing wich brings me to tears is when my vet3 Engineers always keep diying to a "flame instant self kill by 2 Volks guy" ^^

[Ununoctium]

Good vet changes but I'd rather make all the offensive bonuses into defensive ones.

[CafeMilani]

i dont agree with double flamethrower, add. mine/demo and reload

[Nijo]

why dont support the orignial main function of guys wich only fight in the second place?
Give them the vet to build their shit faster ^^ talking about tanktraps BW and all that stuff. Than vet builders would be realy cool ^^

[Draken]

Vet 3 on pios and engies is to weak imo. Give them heroic armor or massive health buff, you don't see thousands of them...

[Unkn0wn]

Just because it's "rare" or on a weak unit is no excuse to make it ridiculously powerful.

[Ununoctium]

Just because it's "rare" or on a weak unit is no excuse to make it ridiculously powerful.

but it does justify making the vet free.
Vet 3 engies blow up to an lmg just as fast as any other. paying for vet 3 is worthless unless you have pp to waste. vet 2 and 3 on mg, recon, and pio/engi should be free if it isnt.

[Dragon2008]

Really units that u never really see vetted up should have no SP costs for thier vet.

[CafeMilani]

i know many guys who have at least 1 flamerengie in their core and pair flamers with riflemen. same with pios

[Ununoctium]

i know many guys who have at least 1 flamerengie in their core and pair flamers with riflemen. same with pios

yes but how often does that unit survive?
It is part of the CoH "lucky" engine, lucky engineers get free vet.

vet 2 is currently free on some things btw

[CafeMilani]

doesnt matter if it survives or not. fact is that many ppl use it simply because its effective. flamers do a crapload of damage and thats why you can only get them on a 'weak' unit.
draken you cant be serious to give engies and pios heroic armor or epic health buffs at vet3.

[Tymathee]

Heroic armor at vet 3 actually isn't that bad of an idea, but wouldn't that juts make them more vulnerable to flames when they blow up?

How about just changing it so at vet 2 they build faster and at vet 3 they get soldier armor on top of their vet bonuses they get already? In order for them to build faster is actually quite simple I think, it's tied into their repair speed and since they don't repair atm, you can fiddle with that at will. Or heck, how about at vet 3 you enable them to be able to repair again?

tbh, engineers aren't really that weak, its' just the low number of men.

Pios 2 men 70 health each
Engineers 3 men 55 health each
sappers 4 men 60 health each

huge disparity for pios and engineers, but i would like to see a suppression bonus for engies at vet 1 instead of dmg, that's their #1 enemy getting surprised by kar98's lol

[Nijo]

i dont think they need that armor buff....

i would be just cool if the "elite" pio's would benefit from vet in case of faster building... than they would be realy cool.

Just my 2 cent ^^