I am making a personal rule two.

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[Two]

I see more then 3 t17s from 1 player i quit.

[KingTigerLT]

agree

[lionel23]

No offense, but just learn to counter them, we allies learn to do that against mass P4s and panthers and mass weapon support spam.

[EliteGren]

There is no hard counter to T17s atm. Need faust fixed asap.

[Two]

No offense, but just learn to counter them, we allies learn to do that against mass P4s and panthers and mass weapon support spam.

Killing t17's are not worth the effort. As PE theres really no counter unless i restructure my entire company to have some shreks, and even then they get owned.

[Smokaz]

Threadbreaker + 50mm? Except everything folds once you introduce a 57mm.  Chasing it with shreks is fail.. skirts of t17 are too good for their price imo.

[lionel23]

Well now you're saying the T17 is too impossible to counter because it has a 57mm?  You can't balance a unit by bringing in other units, it's like saying Panzer 4s are seriously OP because there are paks and stormtrooper around them....

Back to the T17, just have shreks in cover being covered by vehicles (panzer 4, upgun puma, pak guns, 50mm HT which really makes a mess of vehicles... light ATHT can take out engines... volksmines can disable them and allow you to descend upon them for the kill...).

And really Two? You don't run shreks at all?  Well then you should be punished by light vehicles for it.  It's like saying I do a 38 rifleman company with BARs and nades only, then complaining that Armored Cars and ostwinds own me...

[bbsmith]

Lionel, shrecks are the worst counter to light vehicles.

[Baine]

And really Two? You don't run shreks at all?  Well then you should be punished by light vehicles for it.  It's like saying I do a 38 rifleman company with BARs and nades only, then complaining that Armored Cars and ostwinds own me...

Do us a favour and make a axis company that relies on schrecks to kill light vehicles.

[crimsonrabbit]

And really Two? You don't run shreks at all?  Well then you should be punished by light vehicles for it.  It's like saying I do a 38 rifleman company with BARs and nades only, then complaining that Armored Cars and ostwinds own me...

Do us a favour and make a axis company that relies on schrecks to kill light vehicles.

+1
keep representin baine.

[lionel23]

I've seen them work just fine, and I ran shreks too with my PE company, didn't have a super big problem with that.

It's like saying RR can't counter light vehicles either because most of their shots phase thru, just be in cover and you can overpower those light vehicles.

[Draken]

Puddin relies as his main at on strom shrekz and people complain about it, so it just depends on user, shrekz are good in right hands against light vechicles, just use them as supporting at weapon in defensive way if something tries to flank your pak or p4.

There is no hard counter to T17s atm. Need faust fixed asap.

Show me hard counter for KT, and there is hard counter for t17s: upgun hotchkiss, paks or p4s and double 50mms many things own them, I never had problems with light vechicle spam.

[bbsmith]

Shrecks on storms is good, but Shrecks on normal Grens just get raped by light vehicles.

[lionel23]

Like Draekn says, you just use them in defensive ways.  A t17 isn't going to rape at long range against Shrek inf in heavy cover.

Like my bazooka rangers suck against charging an ostwind, but does that mean the ostwind is overpowered?  No, of course not!  You just have to force it into a situation that's favorable to you.  If I say bring out a mortar team that really messed up the axis team, then the ostwind has to come at me to neutralize it, thus letting my bazookas nail it as it is lured into the trap.

In this instance, use an AT gun backed up by shreks.  T17 can stay at long range and get sniped, or come in close and only circle strafe partially as the grens take cover on the shield (or whatever cover the pak is on) and owns the heck out of hte t17, on top of that put volks mines or mines all around it.  I had one really bad game with an armored player ally that brought in three t17s and lost them all as he was using them as one big group and they hit a single volks mine, getting slowed and owned by a bunch of shrekers and a single pak and p4... was sad indeed.

[Baine]

Yeah right, so at least 1 pak, and 1 schreck squad, to counter that T17 whereas you can only counter it when you are using it defensively. Great.
T17 running around backcapping or harassing the units on the way to the front. Not to mention the T17 can easily flank that super counter, drive the infantry out of cover and circle the pak simultaneously. Insta suppress and win, with not much health, but win.

[Sach]

I'm going to quit unless people stop calling it threadbreaker

[Draken]

God stop crying, I play both sides and t17s are fine, doctrine buffs is what made you think that they are OP, without any doctrine unlocks they are fine but compared to other wehr buffs you shouldn't complain, doctrines are reworked and there is new patch coming so stop this rage balancing.

[Smokaz]

Yeah right, so at least 1 pak, and 1 schreck squad, to counter that T17 whereas you can only counter it when you are using it defensively. Great.
T17 running around backcapping or harassing the units on the way to the front. Not to mention the T17 can easily flank that super counter, drive the infantry out of cover and circle the pak simultaneously. Insta suppress and win, with not much health, but win.

This is the core of the issue. You can beat a moron attacking too much AT with his t17, but you cant beat his ability to harass you on the sides even if he is a moron. Its already been tested that the upgunned puma is extremely sketchy a counter to the t17 - like the pak/shrek, it can only beat it defensively. Go check the BA forums for the replay where a t17 consistently beats anything else than a lucky upgun puma sitting still.

Theres nothing wehr has other than mines to limit the movement of the t17, while americans have expendable/cheap or resistant AT options like airborne and zook only rangers, or the vet 2 sticky rifle to move up with them. Shreks for their price are not expendable and grenadier squads dont have oh shit buttons. Mines, a shrek and a gren are all static or very immobile counters to the t17.

Sadly no ideas for how to chance the upgun puma to be able to beat the t17 pop-effectively has surfaced, nor the support for it. But what was tested in the replay I am speaking of in this thread was the only pop-effective mobile counter for the t17: the upgun puma. Sadly there was only one situation where the upgun puma stood a chance against the t17: when the puma was standing still. When both were moving or the puma moving, the puma lost.

Why should the upgun puma beat the t17 on the move? Oh why maybe because it has no stun, no true AI capability (7 second reload 1/3 chance of hitting most infantry moving) and wehr has no other mobile counter for comparable pop available?

[Mysthalin]

And really Two? You don't run shreks at all?  Well then you should be punished by light vehicles for it.  It's like saying I do a 38 rifleman company with BARs and nades only, then complaining that Armored Cars and ostwinds own me...

Do us a favour and make a axis company that relies on schrecks to kill light vehicles.

If I still had the replay, I could give you one of my 2 stormtrooper squads killing not only 7 light vehicles total, but also killing a vet 2 pershing and forcing a vet 3 one off-field(OBM and field repairs). My enemies were Smokaz and Deadbolt. So I'd reckon that an axis company that relies on shreks to kill light vehicles would be quite efficient, at least in my hands...
PE has TD shreks, which can cloak in cover for a simmilar, if slightly less offensive effect.

As for the ultimate counter to T17s - use a P4 :S.

[Malevolence]

I'm going to quit unless people stop calling it threadbreaker

I agree.