US Airborne Strafing Run Cont.

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[anthony210]

The thing is storms CAN be avoided.  Recon tommies, jeeps, or even standard rifles near your tanks will deter the storms.  There is no way to not get hit by a stafing run currently.

Is it really that hard to keep a rifle squad near your tanks?  I know I dont take the shot on tanks in the backfield unless the tank is sitting alone so my storms have a chance to get away.  Its not worth taking out a sherman if it means I will have to retreat my squads.

The only time you will see my storms hunting in the backfield is if I see a calliope, priest or howitzer and it needs to die.

[fallensoldier7]

Is it really that hard to keep a rifle squad near your tanks?  I know I dont take the shot on tanks in the backfield unless the tank is sitting alone so my storms have a chance to get away.  Its not worth taking out a sherman if it means I will have to retreat my squads.

Yea, like 1 riflesquad is going to stop a pair of storms from insta-gibbing a sherman.  Realistically, the storms are probably a little further ahead of the main army, and once their target dies the support runs in and rapes everything.

Let's take an army of 3 pumas and 2 storms.  The storms go in, rape the sherman/m10/m18/ATG and then the pumas come in.  They can easily take care of the ATG by flanking or just shooting it to death, and of course they could murder the riflesquad that was trying to fight off the storms.

[puddin]

Tank, i bring my armor, you bring your storms, lets see who wins, then vice VErsa...  LEts see how easy it is to instsa rape with your storms... I would love to see it.

[anthony210]

1 rifle squad will deter two squads of storms.  But good players will have more than 1 rifle squad supporting their tanks.  2 rifle squads perhaps with BARs?  an MG?  Any of those and other support can and will stop a storm squad.  No good axis player is going to lose 2 or more double schreck storm squads to kill 1 sherman.  In some cases like mine that would be quite a bit of my companies AT lost to kill 1 tank.  Perhaps some people done realise how much 900 munitions is.  That is what 3 squads of double schreck storm squads cost in munitions alone.  Thats a good portion of my companies total munitions.  My other AT concists of P4s and a Tiger.  I wouldnt waste what I consider half my companies AT on 1 tank unless I could kill that tank AND get away with it.

Again the only tanks that get alphad are the ones sitting alone in a field or repairing at the spawn.  And even then like I said most usually wont go hunting in the backfield unless they have a reason too such as on map arty.

[fallensoldier7]

In my scenario I don't lose the stormtroopers.  I instagib the sherman and then run away as the single riflesquad tries to kill my storms.  Then I pop medkits as my pumas rush in to kill the rifles.

Even if there are 2 riflesquads I could still alpha the sherman and then get the rifles with my pumas.

[anthony210]

In my scenario I don't lose the stormtroopers.  I instagib the sherman and then run away as the single riflesquad tries to kill my storms.  Then I pop medkits as my pumas rush in to kill the rifles.

Even if there are 2 riflesquads I could still alpha the sherman and then get the rifles with my pumas.

Again that sherman was lacking proper support.  And MG in a building nearby?  AT guns backing it up so the pumas dont rape?  Rangers? Its really not that hard.  I am sorry but we are going to have to agree to disagree your not going to convince me that Stormtroopers are overpowered.  They are expensive units at 300 munitions apiece.  Learn to adapt to them.  Every play  someone with 4 snipers?  Its annoying but we deal with it right?  learn to deal with stormtroopers as others have.  They have been this way forever and people have dealt with it.

The only reason this strafing run issue was brought up is because all the other off maps were nerfed with drift.  Strafing is the only off map that has no drift.  If it were possible to add drift instead if would be all for that but the devs have said that is impossible.  The only other solution to make strafing run miss sometimes is to add smoke and a delay so people can dodge it themselves because it does not miss unless you mess up the targetting.  Strafing Run is not a special off map,  theres no reason why it is special enough to not get hit by the nerf bat that the other off maps got hit by. 

This is a beta,  we are all here to test things.  Strafing getting a 0.9 second delay and smoke is one more thing we have to test.  If for some odd reason this nerfs it so bad that no one can hit the broad side of a barn with it then im sure it will be fixed.  But we wont know until we try it right?

[fallensoldier7]

I don't think I ever said storms are OP.  I was simply proving the point that storms aren't as easy to fight as you make them out to be.

[anthony210]

I don't think I ever said storms are OP.  I was simply proving the point that storms aren't as easy to fight as you make them out to be.

Your right they arent easy to fight.  And their price reflects that.  If they were easy to fight they would be cheaper.

[1337noob]

Isn't the whole point that no one likes unavoidable casualties? If so, then we're talking about dozens of unavoidable situations, and schrecks are simply the most expensive gamble of the lot.

I've seen 4 sniper spam - storms insta-gibbed by an 800 mun. However, insta-gibbing a sherman costs 900 mun, since 4 schrecks only do 480 damage (576 damage if both squads are vet3).

Both of these scenarios are extremely annoying, but they're not rare. Recon tommies can kill a vet3 sniper instantaneously, a T17 can zip in and stun a vet3 tiger until an ATG finishes it off, sector arty can wipe out entire squads before they can retreat, multiple brens can eternally button the toughest tank until any number of lowly HHAT finishes it off, and the list goes on. None of these are 100% garantees, but the ones that cost more tend to be more effective.

I won't argue if strafe gets smoke, since I play germans mostly, but the delay is too much. In general, Relic's choice of warning level was decent for offmaps, etc. and changing too much in EIRR just breaks the intent of the ability. Strafe should be very hard to avoid, but not garantee the death of a squad.

[Mysthalin]

Actually, 2 vet 3 double shreks do 600 damage, and put the poor sherman into red health, meaning it is insta-gibbed.

No need for any of that silly 900 mu.

[NightRain]

So technically all you need is few SPs and 600 manpower and 600 munition, good micro to get the units Vet 2 to deal that 600 damage per shreck volley assuming they all hit their target.

The result:

To instagib a Sherman you do not only need massive ammount of Resources but as well very good micro and luck

[1337noob]

Actually, 2 vet 3 double shreks do 600 damage, and put the poor sherman into red health, meaning it is insta-gibbed.

No need for any of that silly 900 mu.

120 *1.2* = 576 but whatever. But that's assuming that all 4 schrecks can sneak to within 12m of the rear of the sherman, and none of them roll the ~15% non-penetration. Possible yes, but there are so many variables and chance of discovery/pin/crush that the risk deserves the payoff.

[Mysthalin]

Vet 2 gives extra 15 percent accuracy.

0.75*1.15 = 86.25 percent chance to hit a sherman at medium range. Even if you roll a miss, there is still a good chance to hit by scatter at such range.. Fairly easy to get into 20 range(half their LOS) under cloak. Considering the sherman has a 1 decloak radius..
Even at long range, the accuracy with a vet 2/3 shrek is 0.35*1.15 = 40.25 percent. Not advisable, but still very much possible to shoot and hit.

It's actually 12 percent chance not to penetrate, but the actual reason why you're not unloading into the sherman's rear/side armour is unclear to me. Particularly since side armor gives more of a target for missed scattering shots...

And yes, you were right on the 1.2 modifier, I was fairly certain that it was 1.25... You still insta-gib shermans with 2 vet 3 double shreks - I would know, have been using them for a long time now.

The problem is the fact you can insta-destroy units in a game driven by persistancy. In vCoH it's fine, but in EiRR, having units instantly ahnialated something by what you can't dodge is dedrimental to persistancy, and that is why it should be fixed.

[puddin]

And if you leave a sherman compltly unprotected or running head first without knowing what could possibly be around, You deserve to die..

ORRRRRR, Do this..

Pop feild repairs and Crab mine flail, Run in, Drop the flai and wow, see the stormies die and scatter while you ouut heal the shrek dmg i can put out. 

Or don;t have armor company?  LEts fgot for RR squads who can fire up and run me down with assuld squads and nade me? 

Or if your infanty?  A howie shot after i shoot, OR rangers with Fire up, OR the mortor with extra range?  or even a sniper or 2 to kill off a few guys? 

Then there are strafing runs or bombing runs, on top of T-17s.  Oh and Shermans snipe guys at range.... 

Its a 4 man squad.  That once weakened... Can be very very vulnerable... 

They are more of a deterent then anything, Throw them on the front line, and they die...

[Mysthalin]

Good luck field repairing a dead unit.
Field repairs heals 300 health over 20 seconds. Shreks fire every 12 seconds at long range. Meaning, that there is a snowballs chance in hell you'll out-heal 4 vet 3 shreks firing at you with field repairs.
RR squads fire up and run your stormtroopers down? I wonder how the hell they manage to outdps you with their puny carbine, actually kill your stormtroopers, AND get away with their super-slow exhaustion speed from the stormie's support.
Only hard-counter to stormtroopers is recon squads, puddin, and you know it. Off-maps and mines are a hard-counter to everything, so bringing them into this is absolutely pointless.

My 2 stormtroopers do absolutely FINE versus ANYONE who doesn't have recon tommy spam. No tank can enter the field while the stormies are alive, except churchils.

[CommieKillerz]

Meet the Radio Triangulations 

[anthony210]

Vet 2 gives extra 15 percent accuracy.

0.75*1.15 = 86.25 percent chance to hit a sherman at medium range. Even if you roll a miss, there is still a good chance to hit by scatter at such range.. Fairly easy to get into 20 range(half their LOS) under cloak. Considering the sherman has a 1 decloak radius..
Even at long range, the accuracy with a vet 2/3 shrek is 0.35*1.15 = 40.25 percent. Not advisable, but still very much possible to shoot and hit.

It's actually 12 percent chance not to penetrate, but the actual reason why you're not unloading into the sherman's rear/side armour is unclear to me. Particularly since side armor gives more of a target for missed scattering shots...

And yes, you were right on the 1.2 modifier, I was fairly certain that it was 1.25... You still insta-gib shermans with 2 vet 3 double shreks - I would know, have been using them for a long time now.

The problem is the fact you can insta-destroy units in a game driven by persistancy. In vCoH it's fine, but in EiRR, having units instantly ahnialated something by what you can't dodge is dedrimental to persistancy, and that is why it should be fixed.

The problem with your statement is that you CAN avoid stormtroopers killing your stuff by keeping your armor well supported.  You however can NOT dodge Strafing Run gibbing your units currently which is the topic of this thread.

[puddin]

Good luck field repairing a dead unit.
Field repairs heals 300 health over 20 seconds. Shreks fire every 12 seconds at long range. Meaning, that there is a snowballs chance in hell you'll out-heal 4 vet 3 shreks firing at you with field repairs.
RR squads fire up and run your stormtroopers down? I wonder how the hell they manage to outdps you with their puny carbine, actually kill your stormtroopers, AND get away with their super-slow exhaustion speed from the stormie's support.
Only hard-counter to stormtroopers is recon squads, puddin, and you know it. Off-maps and mines are a hard-counter to everything, so bringing them into this is absolutely pointless.

My 2 stormtroopers do absolutely FINE versus ANYONE who doesn't have recon tommy spam. No tank can enter the field while the stormies are alive, except churchils.

I would love to see this.  A light armor rush with Feild repairs will kill 2 squads of storms easily, Maybe 3 squads with a bit of luck. 

I played a game where 1 squad was never forced off, I played a 2nd where in the first 5 mins, 2 squads had to run away,. and the next ones were hunted relentlessly with good tactics and commandos floating around and evently i had to make a run for it. 

Its the same with the 4man KCh, Your goal is to not kill the squad, but put it in a postion to get run off the feild...  Its the same many times with RR squads, I don;t want to kill it, i want it off the feild....  I want to Kill Mgs and Mortorrs and AT guns, and tanks , But most else i just want away from me and off.

[MonthlyMayhem]

Vet 2 gives extra 15 percent accuracy.

0.75*1.15 = 86.25 percent chance to hit a sherman at medium range. Even if you roll a miss, there is still a good chance to hit by scatter at such range.. Fairly easy to get into 20 range(half their LOS) under cloak. Considering the sherman has a 1 decloak radius..
Even at long range, the accuracy with a vet 2/3 shrek is 0.35*1.15 = 40.25 percent. Not advisable, but still very much possible to shoot and hit.

It's actually 12 percent chance not to penetrate, but the actual reason why you're not unloading into the sherman's rear/side armour is unclear to me. Particularly since side armor gives more of a target for missed scattering shots...

And yes, you were right on the 1.2 modifier, I was fairly certain that it was 1.25... You still insta-gib shermans with 2 vet 3 double shreks - I would know, have been using them for a long time now.

The problem is the fact you can insta-destroy units in a game driven by persistancy. In vCoH it's fine, but in EiRR, having units instantly ahnialated something by what you can't dodge is dedrimental to persistancy, and that is why it should be fixed.

The problem with your statement is that you CAN avoid stormtroopers killing your stuff by keeping your armor well supported.  You however can NOT dodge Strafing Run gibbing your units currently which is the topic of this thread.

Uh oh pinning is a total gib, seriously? On rare occasions how I found there to be like 1 guy left in a squad or zero from a strafing run. Smoke and delay just ruin it as I mentioned before. Why not just give it the little plane icon like the recon run and call it a day? There for axis can know its coming and it won't be a complete nerf.

[anthony210]

Strafing Run does gib.  Sometimes it doesnt and when that happens the squad is pinned down and most likely will soon be forced to retreat anyway so it has the same effect.  It will remove the units its used on from the field.