US Airborne Strafing Run Cont.

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[MonthlyMayhem]

Then give it the little plane icon smoke is just..blah and so is delay. Therefor axis can't complain about not able being to detected and allies won't be like this is so pointless to buy. Best of both worlds.

[anthony210]

Smoke alone wont do anything.  Strafing Run is instant.  If you add smoke and no delay all you will see is some red smoke and bullets at the same time.  With a 1 second delay you will smoke then after 1 second you will get strafed.

Think about this.  1 Second.  Thats not a lot of time.  That means you have literally 1 second from the time you see the smoke to click on your units and move them before strafe hits.  I have a feeling strafing run is still going to hit most of the time even with the delay and smoke.  It will just add a minor chance that you MIGHT be able to dodge it if you reacted quick enough.

Its actually going to be 0.9 second delay.  I just cant understand what all the uproar is.  Strafing Run is not the hard counter to stormtroopers,  its an off map that hits them just like other infantry.

I understand what all the crying is about with stormtroopers but people have to understand that the bulk of blitz players do not spam stormtroopers.  Only a select few have as a counter to light vehicle spam or T17 spam.  They are doctrinal, only 1 doctrine gets them.  They cost a significant amount of resources for just 3 squads, if you spam them then your gonna spend all your munitions on them and you will suck against anything other than armor spam.  IMO we should all be trying to fight spam in general.  From stormtroopers to T17s to any other kind of spam.

Yes, Stormtroopers with double schrecks are a powerfull anti tank unit but their price reflects this.  The whole persistance argument is moot as just about any offmap or on map arty has the chance to insta gib a unit.  From a priest down to a nebelwerfer.

Again, the added delay to strafing run isnt even in yet so we all have no idea how it will work and we are all just theorycrafting.  Lets test it out,  if it sucks then I am sure something will be done to fix it.  But we will never know until we try it.

[1337noob]

The problem is the fact you can insta-destroy units in a game driven by persistancy. In vCoH it's fine, but in EiRR, having units instantly ahnialated something by what you can't dodge is dedrimental to persistancy, and that is why it should be fixed.

The concept is quite sound, but it's not going to happen. If we were to eliminate insta-destroy from EIRR there would be no button, sticky, or stun. There are simply too many weapons which approach the issue in different ways, but left to their devices result in unavoidable loss of veterancy.

The only way storms can unavoidably kill a tank (requiring dual vet3 sneak), is by being extremely careful and extremely lucky in avoiding detection, having every shot hit and penetrate, and there is even a chance of the tank moving before you're in position (not every sherman sits idly on the sidelines of the games I've played). These odds are no better than someone's KT being surrounded by sequential button/sticky/stun/AP rounds.

I'm absolutely on board with reduction of the vanilla to lvl8vet3 discrepancy, but we will never be able to convince everyone to accept artificial limitations so that veterans can escape.

[Mysthalin]

Neither sticky, nor button, nor stun insta-gibs anything. It's either a permanent cripple to speed(which can be alleviated by using your repair kit), or a short-lived disablement of the entire vehicle, which are both easily avoidable due to the... visible nature of both tommies and riflemen. You can't exactly kite stormtroopers the same way you can, let's say, grenadiers.

As for puddin's statement - why exactly should 10 popcap worth of infantry AT defeat 24 popcap worth of pure anti-infantry, particularly when it's using a max 2 use Tier 3 ability to buff itself for just 20 seconds? And actually, you still can beat them LVs - just stay in cover.

[DisposableHero]

I love it.

"This is a beta,  we are all here to test things." Specifically where something is effective against you (strafing run).

Stormtroopers, however, are special. They are exempt from any testing because they were like that in vCOH (like strafing run) and they are a doctrinal unlock (like strafing run). Apparently their expense is the extent of any testing involved, coupled with something about 'skill.' Actual fundamental changes to in game behavior is out of the question (unlike strafing run).

"Strafing run does gib. Sometimes it doesn't" and "most likely" may be deadly. Or it may not, but because it may, it should be nerfed.

Whereas those folks saying 'Stormtroopers gib' and 'most likely' may be deadly, get told that they probably won't and because of that, they are fine.

Yes I understand that there is a chance of avoiding Stormtrooper gibbing in a perfect world where the circumstances are stacked against the Stormtroopers. There is also a chance of avoiding Strafing Run in a perfect world where the circumstances are against it (the player misses, the player uses it too late, the player forgets about it, the player simply doesn't have it). Its a matter of extremes.

That being said, I'm probably in favour of Strafing run getting some form of nerf. But if this is a testing beta, then nothing - Stormtrooper cloak included - should be above discussion. It should go one way and the other.

[Groundfire]

I love it.

"This is a beta,  we are all here to test things." Specifically where something is effective against you (strafing run).

Stormtroopers, however, are special. They are exempt from any testing because they were like that in vCOH (like strafing run) and they are a doctrinal unlock (like strafing run). Apparently their expense is the extent of any testing involved, coupled with something about 'skill.' Actual fundamental changes to in game behavior is out of the question (unlike strafing run).

"Strafing run does gib. Sometimes it doesn't" and "most likely" may be deadly. Or it may not, but because it may, it should be nerfed.

Whereas those folks saying 'Stormtroopers gib' and 'most likely' may be deadly, get told that they probably won't and because of that, they are fine.

Yes I understand that there is a chance of avoiding Stormtrooper gibbing in a perfect world where the circumstances are stacked against the Stormtroopers. There is also a chance of avoiding Strafing Run in a perfect world where the circumstances are against it (the player misses, the player uses it too late, the player forgets about it, the player simply doesn't have it). Its a matter of extremes.

That being said, I'm probably in favour of Strafing run getting some form of nerf. But if this is a testing beta, then nothing - Stormtrooper cloak included - should be above discussion. It should go one way and the other.

+10000

Couldnt have said it better myself.

Strafing run should not get a delay or smoke.

Range should be reduced so it fires while on the map, and have a higher chance to be shot down.

That's all, nothing else. it needs no warning.

[IIPraeToriaNII]

stormtrooper cloak is more properly compared and contrasted with, its antithesis: fireup.
strafing run is a offmap, and thus should be compared with other offmaps.
some of you guys are all over the place, you mine as well compare strafing run with bowling. (you say, "what?"... i say, "exactly"...)

that being said, all damaging offmaps should be pretty uniform in their deployment and effectiveness.
such as smoke, smoke color(friendly vs enemy), drift, delay, damage, etc. yet allowing for some of the variability eirr has now.
and/or also be put in their proper tier(/s) based on type and/or damage/effectiveness.
strafing run should be included in such standards, or be given over to debuff offmap types (strafing run = insta suppress/pinning for a time) such as terror's propaganda, etc.

instant rape of infantry without a chance to escape the field of fire(regardless of the actions/timing from the deployer of the offmap), is how and why strafing run doesnt fare well in contrast to other similar offmap types. (not to mention relics numerous "tweaks" to this offmap over the years, and the ability to retreat and RESUPPLY those units in vcoh and NOT IN EIRR)

too much variability unbalances the equation.

[VERTIGGO]

Strafing run should not get a delay or smoke.

Range should be reduced so it fires while on the map, and have a higher chance to be shot down.

That's all, nothing else. it needs no warning.

+1

Absolutely correct. Strafe is annoying to my storms as ever, but as long as it rarely eliminates entire squads, it shouldn't have much warning. It would never work.

However, @ Mysth... everyone sees button, cloak, stun, and slow from different perspectives. They're all essentially gimmicks, but there are dozens of them, and they're so integrated into the gameplay that makes this worth it that we can't eliminate them without doing severe harm to balance.

I can also think of a few more that easily compare to "storm-gib": bikes are incessantly gibbed by 57mms since they only require one hit, rarely seem to miss, and shoot farther even than a bike's sight. the same goes for light vehicles like M8s and T17s if they haven't been skirted, a flak 36 or even a vet panther can easily snipe them out in one shot from outside of the vehicle's sight. Gib again. Even snipers fall into this category. Although important squads like KCH and officers take several hits, some units can be insta-gibbed by as little as 2-3 snipers, including snipers themselves, which are arguably more valuable than shermans (200mun is harder to get than 240 fuel if advantages are considered).

[Akranadas]

Are we still going on about this?

[anthony210]

I love it.

"This is a beta,  we are all here to test things." Specifically where something is effective against you (strafing run).

Stormtroopers, however, are special. They are exempt from any testing because they were like that in vCOH (like strafing run) and they are a doctrinal unlock (like strafing run). Apparently their expense is the extent of any testing involved, coupled with something about 'skill.' Actual fundamental changes to in game behavior is out of the question (unlike strafing run).

"Strafing run does gib. Sometimes it doesn't" and "most likely" may be deadly. Or it may not, but because it may, it should be nerfed.

Whereas those folks saying 'Stormtroopers gib' and 'most likely' may be deadly, get told that they probably won't and because of that, they are fine.

Yes I understand that there is a chance of avoiding Stormtrooper gibbing in a perfect world where the circumstances are stacked against the Stormtroopers. There is also a chance of avoiding Strafing Run in a perfect world where the circumstances are against it (the player misses, the player uses it too late, the player forgets about it, the player simply doesn't have it). Its a matter of extremes.

That being said, I'm probably in favour of Strafing run getting some form of nerf. But if this is a testing beta, then nothing - Stormtrooper cloak included - should be above discussion. It should go one way and the other.

Please do not put words in my mouth.  I never said I was against testing anything new for stormtroopers.  I said Stormtroopers would be useless without cloak and no one would buy them.  I also said if I would be willing to test a limitation of 1 schreck per storm squad but the shcrecks would have to reduced greatly in price.

What I did say was this change to Strafing Run as already been announced so there is no point in theorycrafting about how it will work because in reality none of us know how it will work until we test it.

I also agree that comparing Strafing Run to stormtroopers is not a good comparision.  Strafing Run needs to be compared to other off maps which is the basis for this change in the first place.

[Smokaz]

I think stormtroopers are balanced currently. The price of the shreks itself does this, and the performance of mp44s on storms hardly compete with grenadiers using lmgs, other than for ambushes or anti sniper and then agian they are significantly more expensive and lost firepower faster as well.

Even if you do run around with 600 munitions poured into two double shrek squads, thats the same as 3 snipers in terms of munitions. Lets not forget the need to get medikits on a squad intended to last as long as possible, putting two squads of these up to 650 munitions!

Lets also not forget that storms actually DO have a oh shit button. Its called blitzkrieg and it allows them to escape unless they are hopelessily surrounded, or already supressed. Airborne get fireup, storms get cloak. I am however extremely unsatisfied by their ability to run in cloak. This is a aspect of them that needs to be removed specificly, I dont see any reason to why the sniper isnt allowed to run in cloak since he deals attrition damage over time and not alphas like storms.

With no oh shit buttons, storms takes some skill to use in terms of not engaging when you cant get away. They also have a problem against the reconspamming brits these days, something that seems prevalent. If they are supressed and there are units present to focus fire them, they will be forced off the field and the faster that occurs the less did the expensive investment pay off.

Strafe.. well it can be devastating. It definitely seems OP against storms since these represent such a big "investment".. but does it really seem any less powerful when it wipes out a sniper? It sucks on big maps, owns on small ones.. cant be using against buildings etc. It has limitations, and as long as AB players are getting the same amount of them for a equal Tier Doctrine ability its balanced.. they get max two right?

[CrazyWR]

correct, 2 max strafes, 4 with AS I believe.

[VERTIGGO]

I am however extremely unsatisfied by their ability to run in cloak. This is a aspect of them that needs to be removed specificly, I dont see any reason to why the sniper isnt allowed to run in cloak since he deals attrition damage over time and not alphas like storms.

What are you talking about? Storms are slow as rust in cloak. Am I missing your point?

[CrazyWR]

blitzkrieg?