PE in need of an INfantry Support Tank

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[MonthlyMayhem]

Haha no I'm a completely nub. Focus fire on LATHT works decently against infantry so do G43's slow against elite infantry. Blamo you have a good infantry support tank supporting actually infantry.. Who would've though

[TodlichPanther]

so to get any millage out of my anti infantry support tank? i need to use a conglomerate of anti infantry units to kill some infantry....why would i add the IST when LATHT and g43's work anyway?

I see your point that it enhances the infantry killing ability of units around it( by helping) but for 10 pop cap i could field an AC and another g43 squad...dont you agree that those two units combined would be more effective than an IST?

[BigDick]

thats an other problem of the PE...they have to many special crap
and since EiR is very limited what you can have on the field
things like, a tank that doesn't do shit vs armor and has limited capacities against inf too, sucks hardcore

the most other (and even more multifunction) tanks have 40 and the crap special function PIV ist has 30 range

PE has the advantage in vCOH of flexible and quick teching  and muni independent AI/AT infantry...there you can outtech your opponent by a PIV rush but that doesnt work in EiR

the "teching" is more the pop cap in EiR and that is due the very special units exactly the opposite...pe sucks at EiR "teching"

a medium battle tank that can take on AI and AT that is something the brits lack too
even the fact that the cromwell fulfill that role way better than the IST
but at least they have totally raping multi functional infantry and AT guns

[panzerman]

they might as well get a standard P4 of the wher.

could give it a heat round upgrade just for the ist. although that would fail 2

[Akranadas]

What if we just increased the Range of the IST to the same as the P4

[Baine]

What if we just increased the Range of the IST to the same as the P4

Sounds like the thoughts of a Madman!

[tankspirit668]

Common Sense on current P4 IST:

I`ll try to add some things up:

• it seems to be common sense, that the PIV IST can`t do things on it`s own even though it is a very special Anti INfantry Tank - help of even more Anti Infantry Units is needed. IHTs and G43 PzGrens were mentioned:

Whether or not it has the same range as a flamer or not is irrelevant, if anything, it helps balance that the anti-infantry tank of both Brits, PE and Amis has similar range. The P4 won't stand up to anti tank weapons, don't expect it to. And it is exactly what it says it is, an IST, use it with infantry, G43 slow on those rifles, or sue assault grens so they will die if they try to get that sticky off. It's not going to win any battles by itself.

• The P4 IST doesn`t seem to be used very much, and when it`s used it doesn`t seem to perform good. Performance seems to be sub Croc Sherman and it`s stated it performs more like more like light vehicles that cost less and take less pop:

does anyone run in fear when they see an IST? no. usually people go, oh.. why'd he put that in his company? i rarely see these things be useful, but sometimes i do see them used to good effect. maybe the cool down for lock down could be decreased, i mean the marder is pretty instant, but that could make it a little bit more useful maybe?

if rr's were range 45, people would be outraged. handheld at should NEVER out range tanks, thats stupid. guess which tank gets out ranged by hand held at? what tank can be KITED by rr's?....the p4-IST.
.....
as for comparing an IST to a croc...well if it was a competition of effectiveness the IST is gonna lose, by a really long way.

Crocs often elicit an "oh shit" reaction. IST's get an...guys, gimi a sec im gonna role this guy reaction.

Its killing power and speed are both lower than crocs, its a phailcroc.
....
 Go for it, get some replays of ownage IST's. if you can.  Manage this and ill have to re-evaluate my opinion of your posting.

The 4 you would most closely compare would be:
Ami- Croc
PE - P4
Wher - ostwind/puma?
Brits - churchill 4/ stuart

Although the PE p4 should have a range change from 30 to 35. it has less range than  everything in the game.

Problems with current P4 IST

As it seems there are two problems:

1 .) The current PIV underperforms in its role It seems to be common sense, that the current P4 IST is a suicide unit

2.) PE has no Infantry support tank with a good range , that is not suicide unit

Steps that should be taken to fix that:

1.) Lowering the Pricing and the pop of the current PIV IST, because it`s pendants have a better range and are not considered suicide units or are light vehicles, which seem to be more cost efficient.

......
Now, what I'd go for is maybe lower pop, say 8 or 9 because it is a support tank and not a main battle tank, but all MBT's are 12 pop or higher.

Now, the other axis tank i most compare it to, which is the stuh/g, is only 8 pop 300 mp and 140 fu, (380 180 stuh) is only 8 pop, where as the is is 350 mp and 205 fu and 10 pop. maybe a lower to 9 pop would hep with a man power and fuel lower to i say 320 and 190 would make it much more useful and be able to fit into more build than it is now. Even the croc got lowered to 10.

2.) And Create a new variant of the PIV IST, like it was done with the AT HT before. It should have a longer weapon range. There are concerns that if you keep the stats like its firing rate aso and lockdown ability it will be overpowered, which i see the same way, therefore i think a a simple range increase will create an overpowered unit. Making a complete new Variant a new unit will help, that the balancing can be done, firing rate can be adjusted, lockdown ability can be removed, pricing and pop can be adjusted accordingly performance.   Nobody wants a super unit, that will rape infantry and ATGs and seconds. But it should be common sense, that PE deserves a support tank, that is not considered a suicide unit.

Hmm, 35-40 range with lockdown..... I don't like it.

What if we just increased the Range of the IST to the same as the P4

Sounds like the thoughts of a Madman!

[StonewaII]

Hi, i also have problems dealing with infantry, especially elite infantry as pe.
I think the issue lies in that theres a lack of sufficient hard counters to it. At least im having trouble finding 
I'm struggling with g43s and assault grens, hetzers and laht backed up by mortar fire, but the thing is there really hard to stop even after ferocious fighting they seem to overwhelm.
I wonder if the situation improves once you manage vet 3 on your infantry but i kinda wished we had our own elite infantry to retaliate back or our basic were reliable enough.
Most of the times to counter something like the above it seems it would require far greater pop than of what you possess at a given time.
And as far as the topic goes, yeah i agree the ist lacks in both reliability and performance, particulary because of its small range, and lock down makes it easy target from enemy at.

[todlichpanther4]

personally, i agree with akra's suggestions/idea (what ever it was), it makes sense to increase the range, to me at least.

[tankspirit668]

personally, i agree with akra's suggestions/idea (what ever it was), it makes sense to increase the range, to me at least.

And what are you telling the guys that like a suicide like P4 IST and the guys that fear that fear that a P IV IST with just a range buff will be OP, ( I think it  could be OP )?

Isn`t a price reduction on the current IST and a new Variant with a buffed range and some other nerfs a better option ?

[Tymathee]

What if we just increased the Range of the IST to the same as the P4

insane, then you'd have to buff the price a lot more. I say just lower the pop and the price and we're good.

[tankspirit668]

What if we just increased the Range of the IST to the same as the P4

insane, then you'd have to buff the price a lot more. I say just lower the pop and the price and we're good.

So you are another one saying that just buffing it`s range keeping all other stats as they are leads to an OP Unit. What do you think about the 2 things that should be done :

Common Sense on current P4 IST:

I`ll try to add some things up:

• it seems to be common sense, that the PIV IST can`t do things on it`s own even though it is a very special Anti INfantry Tank - help of even more Anti Infantry Units is needed. IHTs and G43 PzGrens were mentioned:

Whether or not it has the same range as a flamer or not is irrelevant, if anything, it helps balance that the anti-infantry tank of both Brits, PE and Amis has similar range. The P4 won't stand up to anti tank weapons, don't expect it to. And it is exactly what it says it is, an IST, use it with infantry, G43 slow on those rifles, or sue assault grens so they will die if they try to get that sticky off. It's not going to win any battles by itself.

• The P4 IST doesn`t seem to be used very much, and when it`s used it doesn`t seem to perform good. Performance seems to be sub Croc Sherman and it`s stated it performs more like more like light vehicles that cost less and take less pop:

does anyone run in fear when they see an IST? no. usually people go, oh.. why'd he put that in his company? i rarely see these things be useful, but sometimes i do see them used to good effect. maybe the cool down for lock down could be decreased, i mean the marder is pretty instant, but that could make it a little bit more useful maybe?

if rr's were range 45, people would be outraged. handheld at should NEVER out range tanks, thats stupid. guess which tank gets out ranged by hand held at? what tank can be KITED by rr's?....the p4-IST.
.....
as for comparing an IST to a croc...well if it was a competition of effectiveness the IST is gonna lose, by a really long way.

Crocs often elicit an "oh shit" reaction. IST's get an...guys, gimi a sec im gonna role this guy reaction.

Its killing power and speed are both lower than crocs, its a phailcroc.
....
 Go for it, get some replays of ownage IST's. if you can.  Manage this and ill have to re-evaluate my opinion of your posting.

The 4 you would most closely compare would be:
Ami- Croc
PE - P4
Wher - ostwind/puma?
Brits - churchill 4/ stuart

Although the PE p4 should have a range change from 30 to 35. it has less range than  everything in the game.

Problems with current P4 IST

As it seems there are two problems:

1 .) The current PIV underperforms in its role It seems to be common sense, that the current P4 IST is a suicide unit

2.) PE has no Infantry support tank with a good range , that is not suicide unit

Steps that should be taken to fix that:

1.) Lowering the Pricing and the pop of the current PIV IST, because it`s pendants have a better range and are not considered suicide units or are light vehicles, which seem to be more cost efficient.

......
Now, what I'd go for is maybe lower pop, say 8 or 9 because it is a support tank and not a main battle tank, but all MBT's are 12 pop or higher.

Now, the other axis tank i most compare it to, which is the stuh/g, is only 8 pop 300 mp and 140 fu, (380 180 stuh) is only 8 pop, where as the is is 350 mp and 205 fu and 10 pop. maybe a lower to 9 pop would hep with a man power and fuel lower to i say 320 and 190 would make it much more useful and be able to fit into more build than it is now. Even the croc got lowered to 10.

2.) And Create a new variant of the PIV IST, like it was done with the AT HT before. It should have a longer weapon range. There are concerns that if you keep the stats like its firing rate aso and lockdown ability it will be overpowered, which i see the same way, therefore i think a a simple range increase will create an overpowered unit. Making a complete new Variant a new unit will help, that the balancing can be done, firing rate can be adjusted, lockdown ability can be removed, pricing and pop can be adjusted accordingly performance.   Nobody wants a super unit, that will rape infantry and ATGs and seconds. But it should be common sense, that PE deserves a support tank, that is not considered a suicide unit.

Hmm, 35-40 range with lockdown..... I don't like it.

What if we just increased the Range of the IST to the same as the P4

Sounds like the thoughts of a Madman!

[Mysthalin]

1 .) The current PIV underperforms in its role It seems to be common sense, that the current P4 IST is a suicide unit

No, it is not common sense that the P4 IST is a suicide unit that underperforms at it's role. It is your OWN SOLE opinion that it is such, and I do not in the least think that you have convinced anyone who has claimed otherwise that you are right. The only one who has almost kind of sort of agreed with you is tymathee, and from his post it is seen that he only grudgingly said what he said overwhelmed by the sheer ammount of complaining. He, and a lot of other players have offered advice on how to use the unit, and instead of actually taking said advice, trying it out, and coming back with results, you just claimed that they are wrong, you are right, and that stuff must be done.
You have not provided either theorethical(stats), nor practical(replays and experience) evidence to prove us wrong.

Performance seems to be sub Croc Sherman and it`s stated it performs more like more like light vehicles that cost less and take less pop:

Have you ever used the croc sherman, or played the allied factions at all? The P4 IST is way more potent than the crocodile, reaping up much more kills, much more reliably with a better range, much better damage and much greater versatility(a croc doesn't do damage to light vehicles). It even costs less than the crocodile sherman, while having access to a mounted MG42.
Yes, it has been stated numerous times that it is to be used more like a heavily armored, better armed light vehicle. It thusly costs more than a light vehicle, as it can achieve much greater results if used in such a way.

[BigDick]

You have not provided either theorethical(stats), nor practical(replays and experience) evidence to prove us wrong.

it will be difficult to find replays because almost no one use this piece of shit
but the devs should have better access to data provide to compare the amount of p4 IST with the amount of shermans and normal PIV

but you are invited to provide us rplays of your PIV IST PWNage from your personal replay database

Have you ever used the croc sherman, or played the allied factions at all? The P4 IST is way more potent than the crocodile, reaping up much more kills, much more reliably with a better range, much better damage and much greater versatility(a croc doesn't do damage to light vehicles). It even costs less than the crocodile sherman, while having access to a mounted MG42.

ok trade the us croc/sherman/m10/M18 with the PE IST and we will see what performs better

Yes, it has been stated numerous times that it is to be used more like a heavily armored, better armed light vehicle. It thusly costs more than a light vehicle, as it can achieve much greater results if used in such a way.

T17 stag > P4 stubby in its performance

[Tymathee]

I'd personally take the pe ist over a croc tbh. Lower pop, cheaper and is better at taking out a crowd of infantry than the croc.

[BigDick]

no u cant be that picky

u have the choice of PIV IST or sherman+croc+m10+m18 not PIV IST and sherman and m10 and m18...

[Mysthalin]

ok trade the us croc/sherman/m10/M18 with the PE IST and we will see what performs better

That is an absurd proposal : you want ALL the non-doctrinal tanks of the US for just 1 of the 2 the PE have. Throw in a panther with that IST, and I'll take that deal.

He's the one that's claiming the absurd in saying the P4 IST is useless. I've seen way more 20+ kill ISTs than I have seen 10+ kill crocs.

[Tymathee]

no u cant be that picky

u have the choice of PIV IST or sherman+croc+m10+m18 not PIV IST and sherman and m10 and m18...

you also have to add in panther, which i'm sure a lot of allied player would take over the s herman/m10/m18.

P4 ist + panther or sherman/croc/m10/m18

[BigDick]

wait than throw in recrewable AT gun against Marder to make the fuel free to get that many m10 and shermans

[Mysthalin]

I'll gladly take marders into the bargain while selling my ATGs.

Just please open-top carriers that let me shoot my panzershreks out of.