Doctrine and Advantages shouldn't cost PP

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[drewmaw]

I've spoke with a few of the EIR players about this... we all love the game, and the only reason I came back now, was because the servers reset, and PP doesn't mean anything. This means that it doesn't matter how much you play, that it just comes down to how you build your company, opposed to the players who binge out just for PP. Many players are casual, including myself, and can only afford to play a game or two, and at times every other day, but I'd like to play this more, but I just know that when PP is reinstated, then we casual players have no hope to have fun, therefore we are forced to not play. Why would you play something that wasn't fun?

I know that many hardcore players will probably get mad at this, but maybe you guys would rather keep your group small, wherein, you don't want other new players to play. If that is the case, then keep PP, but if you're trying to build your player base, then lose the PP, or make so that new players aren't at a disadvantage.

I don't think this mod has to be about being a binge player, that's not what drew me to it. I think this mod is great for the same reason a game like Forza Motorsport is great, customization, and feeling unique with your army. Forza does make you work for cars and upgrades, but the difference between this mod and Forza, is that in EIR, there's no single player to build up your army first, before going online, which is especially important if you are starting late, or playing infrequently.

I think PP should only be kept for vetting your units. What do you guys think?

[tank130]

I totally agree. It would make it more about a game of skill then special units and abilities. I also think the vet levels should be moderate so there is still not a huge advantage for those "binge" players.

By eliminating doctrines and reducing vet capabilities, players would play to win rather than horde vet & PP.

[Demon767]

Or even better idea.

Abolish PP and SP.

you dont have to spend w/e for Vet. your troops vet up ingame and go to next vet level after the game is finished if they reached a certian vet level (can vet only once in game or w/e tickles your fancy devs)

When you Rankup (example winning/loosing games you get xp, just like the system we have now, from 1-8) you have a choice in picking whatever doctrine abilities/offmaps available to you for free.

you cant maxout on offmaps. you can only use as much offmaps as the doctrine gives you. so if w/e is limited to 2. you automatically get 2. or 1 it doesnt matter i could care less.

i infact like this. but its abit late to suggest this kind of stuff, cuz the doctrine rework is just around the corner already.

[sgMisten]

Current system takes too long to grind to rank 8 for casual players, agreed. Especially the diminishing returns system as you get to rank 6/7/8 makes it very difficult to max out the company.

The old EiR system had some grind, but you could max it out in a shorter period of time.

[EIRRMod]

The gain rates are not final, nor is that entire section of the system itself.

The current system is not meant to be a grind - but it is meant to make players reach rank 7 / 8 in 2-3 weeks minimum.  Currently this is implemented AS a grind, but it can change easily.

There were/are several alternate PP gain systems that can be put in place - such as bonus xp / pp for your first game of the day / week / other time period - or diminishing returns if you play a large amount of games.

[sgMisten]

True those.

Diminishing returns wouldn't be popular - if someone puts in X amount of time, they should get the rewards for it.

But increased XP gain for players who don't play as much - that would be something, like WoW and other RPG's rest EXP system. Though players who have 5 accounts will benefit greatly from this too.

[Unkn0wn]

Though players who have 5 accounts will benefit greatly from this too.

Which is fine, encourages people playing multiple factions which in turn will probably keep them around longer.
Right now, someone who has an account for every faction and spends equal time on all four will never really get to the powerful bonusses he might need to stand a chance against someone who spent equal time on one faction.

This is definitely a valid concern drewmaw , it's something that gets brought up occasionally and it reminds us how important this truly is. Like I said on GR, it's not easy balancing persistency with equality. On the one hand we need to give people an incentive to keep playing and a reward for investing time, on the other hand we have to keep a close to equal playing field between casual and hardcore players.

This, and mod accessibility in general, is and should be a top priority either way.

[shockcoil]

How about this.

As a reward for investing time, you get to enjoy to game *gasp*. I know this may seem alien but maybe we could have fun playing this game instead of grinding to level 8 before we get all the really fun stuff.

[Unkn0wn]

Sure, but you can't really sell "persistency" when you get everything from the moment you make an account .
Imagine an MMORPG where you a full level 80 account with all the best gear from the moment you joined, surely not a lot of people would play that. (Despite the fact that you can have fun with it)

Maybe once a real war map and campaign comes into play we can shift the real focus of the game.
Personally, I think we should find some sort of balance between company advancement and total equality of the playing field.

[Mukip]

It would only promote spam.  Without any restrictions on advantages and doctrines, you could never be sure whether you were facing "imba infantry spam build x" or "imba vehicle spam build y".  It would just be rock/paper/scissors more about company build than gameplay.  At least that's what I began to find towards the end of the last war, many players had upwards of 4 fully-ranked level 8 accounts.  It became a real chore trying to guess what spam I was meant to psychically predict and over-field counters for next.

Having to grind up your company forces you to try and make it balanced to deal with different occasions because you know that you are going to be stuck with this company as your only fully-ranked account in a month or so.  People's first companies were typically the most well-rounded in the last war I think and then it all went to shit as people started messing about with spam builds.

One thing I like at the moment is the lack of resource advantages, I don't have to worry whether somebody has gone 3 fuel.  I'd like to see the resources advantages replaced with three simple tiers that provide an equal amount of manpower, mutions and fuel each time.  Costs added to doctrines that buff units would be welcome too.

[Unkn0wn]

That's definitely a good point too, judging from 'end war state' and 'full level 8 account experiments' concluded in the past it's really nowhere as fun gameplay wise.

[Ambra]

here is another idea...ort we could implement...If said higher level company or a very highly vetted unit beats on a lesser leveled unit..it should earn very little or no PP based on the level difference between the two..meaning that if a fully vetted level 8 whatever beats a noob...he should earn no PP for the win/battle etc..but whatever damage or wins a new level units gets gets increased pp or higher amounts based on that same system...like a reverse application per say

[Unkn0wn]

Unfortunately you'll find that a lot of players will simply avoid newer players if they would get less or no bonuses from playing against them. And we can't have that, it'd be disastrous for our player base.

[shockcoil]

Who says persistancy has to be the selling point of this mod? I personally enjoy the gameplay shift much more than farming vet and PPs. But then again I also enjoy end-war oversupplying and doctrine stacking a lot more than basic companies so maybe I'm in the minority here

[Smokaz]

I think its overrated to play EIRR casually, nobody that seldom plays it seem to stay or enjoy it.. (at least they arent very vocal about their decision to stay or leave).. EIRR is just that kind of game that you need to get a bit of "into" to enjoy.. and you also need to play it regularly to enjoy what is happening ingame, the developments and differences in player strategy are impossible to digest through casual play

[Smokaz]

Plus a casual game you can look away for more than 1 second without there being a possibility of something going wrong

[nugnugx]

The gain rates are not final, nor is that entire section of the system itself.

The current system is not meant to be a grind - but it is meant to make players reach rank 7 / 8 in 2-3 weeks minimum.  Currently this is implemented AS a grind, but it can change easily.

There were/are several alternate PP gain systems that can be put in place - such as bonus xp / pp for your first game of the day / week / other time period - or diminishing returns if you play a large amount of games.

how about stacking bonuses?
like

100% more pp for first game on day
100% more pp for playing with higher players
100% more pp for certain map

300% more pp together



right now it's like  ,  play for 2 weeks to max out all the doctrines and then stack vet.

a solution for newcomers or casual players would be ,  give the doctrines for free and play for company.

that's basicaly old eir. after period of war going on a new player would get enough bonuses to max out the doctrines.you just had to earn the last bit for t4. and it was fun.

Seems that fldash knew what he was doing with his system and it was good

[tank130]

I think its overrated to play EIRR casually, nobody that seldom plays it seem to stay or enjoy it.. (at least they arent very vocal about their decision to stay or leave).. EIRR is just that kind of game that you need to get a bit of "into" to enjoy.. and you also need to play it regularly to enjoy what is happening ingame, the developments and differences in player strategy are impossible to digest through casual play

This suggests you want it to be an elitists game. That could cause a problem with the longevity of the mod. When the die hards finally become bored and leave, there will be nothing left.

How about this.

As a reward for investing time, you get to enjoy to game *gasp*. I know this may seem alien but maybe we could have fun playing this game instead of grinding to level 8 before we get all the really fun stuff.

This could have not been said better. I see a large number of people who have that typical attitude I DESERVE SOMETHING.... It's a game of skill and abilities. Why do we have to keep giving people something for just playing the game. If playing the game is not reward enough, perhaps you should move on to something else.
BUT, I disagree with the second part of your comment. Just giving doctrines at the start is missing the point. Just get rid of all the bullshit doctrine stuff. It is the doctrine abilities that tend to really screw up the balance. Stacking abilities, non vcoh abilities, it all just causes grief (except to the player using/abusing it)


IMO, this mod needs to get back to basics and focus on skills. For example - if I was a very skilled player     (ya I know I'm not, just work with me here) I should be able to beat my opponents with my skill as a strategist and player. I should not have to play 10 games to get some special magic ability to beat my opponents stacked special abilities. If I win the game, I am recognized on the leader board as a skilled player and move on the the next battle.
My reward for winning battles?...Just that!!!!! I am on the leader boards as a skilled player and give other skilled players something to shoot for and earn. I don't require some special ability to say I play well or play often. I just do it and earn recognition for MY ability.
If you can't win a game without special abilities or doctrines...then you really are not that good of a player.

Those people who decide to run spam or gimmicks, are quickly recognized and avoided by the community as a whole. At this point, we are forced to play them because it's hard to get a game otherwise. Solution.... bring new players who will stay. They will stay because they will not have to play a bunch of level 8's with magic abilities before they can win. If they have any skill, they will quickly move up the leader board. If they do not posses great skills, they can still play and learn them in a few games. Most people will recognize loosing due to skill versus the almost impossible looking task of getting all the doctrines, levels, and vet.
More people added to the community will weed out the dickheads we are currently forced to play with.

Just my opinion...

[Smokaz]

Its not a elitist attitude, its just a observation. I'm fairly convinced that most players thought getting into eirr was hard and slow and then they reached a point where they started to enjoy the mechanics and see the game differently.

There's nothing to be "elite" about, because its just a (in the long run) pointless game designed to entertain.

If the intention of the mod is to make it more casual, limiting gain from number of games played each day is a tried method of allowing people which seemed to work out fine, so I'm in favor of that.

There's also no difference in skill that uses doctrine abilities or basic units, you are just taking what you are given to play with in the game in both scenarios.

[Ambra]

true  didnt think it through about diminished returns