[CW] Commando Unit

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[NightRain]

As Airborne recieved their own Airborne Riflemen, could Commandos recieve their own Commando Riflemen? Basically it is the same platform but with a Lee endfields (maybe leader carries a ltd Sten smg).

So pretty much this is a similar mirrorish ability for the Commandos.

Unlike normal Commandos with Stens these soldiers won't cost any munition.

Their basic abilities are:

Handgrenade (standard commando one)
Bren (no button)
Riflenade (smoke)
Smoke screen (mando supression breaker)
Can drop in with Gliders
Democharge (if possible)

Cost would be accordingly either 320 or 300 depending on the actual Commando mp price.

The pool cost value should be 3 to match most of the Elite infantry

Unlocking: It could be either:
a unlock in doctorines
a standard ability

What do the people think?

[lionel23]

Or do what they did with Rangers, make it a standard 'rifle' units that you buy 'packages' to equip them in special ways.  That would the the simpliest and I think most flexible way.

[Tymathee]

Or do what they did with Rangers, make it a standard 'rifle' units that you buy 'packages' to equip them in special ways.  That would the the simpliest and I think most flexible way.

could also do that with airborne riflemen but there's a reason why they didn't.

[Armfelt]

Commandos already got a large variety of units. I think it would do good to have more types of "buffs" instead.

[bbsmith]

Why exactly would you choose these over normal commandos?

[Two]

Because normal commandos arent cost effective.

[Armfelt]

perhaps reduce the munition cost of Commandos to about 120-130 munition?

[spinn72]

with already Commando Support teams, PIAT commandos and regular commandos commando riflemen would not really be needed.  I mean maybe if you let them keep the smoke ability and give them lee enfields for about 300/35 or something it could work but as far as i am concerned tommy infantry don't really need to be replaced.

[EIRRMod]

Or do what they did with Rangers, make it a standard 'rifle' units that you buy 'packages' to equip them in special ways.  That would the the simpliest and I think most flexible way.

could also do that with airborne riflemen but there's a reason why they didn't.

Yep, so we could have different pool values if we wished.

[NightRain]

I think people would choose these over normal commandos because of they are Glider Droppable, has smoke, handgrenades, and so on.

In short they are Specialized Tommies in short. + they have 6 men instead of usual 5 and tougher armor.

As well they are good for defence as they can have brens without button of course and they get effected by Commando buffs whatever they'll be.

I understand people's point.
Commandos currently have:
Commandos
Commando mortar
Commando mg
Commando PIATs
Commando Jeep
Tetrarch light tank

Add in Commando Riflemen. You'd have pure Commando armies. All gliderborne troops.

I repeat, in short they are Specialized Riflemen. That cost a little bit more pool value than original Tommies.

I changed my mind about Pool value, it could be simply 2 instead of 3.

I tested out a Commando Company and I resulted in 8 Commando squad with simply no ATGs or any other upgrades- really? 165 munition gribbles commandos to hell in short. If possible one could only carry 4 of them TOTAL in their commando squads and have little AT...talk about being able to spam them.

[LeoPhone]

tommy squads are already Ub3r elite.

commandos got already got commando jeep, sniper and amush squad as extra units. they are more than fine.

[iherduliekmudkips]

What if they were just reskinned Tommies that could use gliders?  It could be part of the Commando doctrine to equip British units with gliders, and for fun to make them all have a similar look.

I had a similar idea a while back:

T3 doctrine "Arnhem Veterans" adds Paratroopers, Paratrooper Lt. and Paradropped 6 Pdr AT gun for the Commando doctrine intended to replace Tommies, Lts and 6 Pdrs and give the option to field a full airborne force along with Commando Support weapons, tetrarchs etc.

The Paratroopers use parachutes and Commandos keep their gliders, they are meant to deploy separately since they have somewhat different roles.

Paratroopers:
300 Manpower, 6 man squad. (cost would need playtesting)
Upgrades:  Brens, rifle grenades.
*They have Commando stats and Tommy equipment (no stens or smoke grenades).  Commandos with Tommy upgrades basically similar to Airborne Riflemen.

Paradropped 6Pdr Atg
400 Manpower, 110 Munitions
*Obviously, Commandos manning an Atg.

Paratroop Regiment Officer
170 Manpower, 40 munitions
*Just an Lt. who paradrops.
 
There is a Commando model in the PE campaign that uses a helmet instead of a beret that would be perfect and fairly straightforward to use.  I think there are already too many unit unlocks in the Commando tree though, so I suggest merging Commando Jeeps and Tetrarchs as a tier 1  or something (they aren't used that much anyway so encourage Tetrarchs a bit).

[NightRain]

Pretty much what mudkip suggested.

Normal Commandos...well fail in short.

165 munition makes sure you have nothing else.

[Mysthalin]

Completely agreed - paying 165 munitions for commandos is extortionate, considering you can get assault grenadiers for just 95 mun, which can subsequently mount an IHT and go win games. Or 4 man KCH for just 135 mun.
Not to mention that these rifle mandos would be VERY useful - they'd remain useful at long range, as well as being decent at short range, and I'd love to have a grenade platform for Brits that doesn't involve paying 165 mun for just the base.

[LeoPhone]

why dont you give canadian infantry grenade options etc.? maybe some more ppl will pick the arty doctrine too then....

[EliteGren]

why dont you give canadian infantry grenade options etc.? maybe some more ppl will pick the arty doctrine too then....

Or maybe people will pick RCA more when the doctrine is actually in?

[NightRain]

Completely agreed - paying 165 munitions for commandos is extortionate, considering you can get assault grenadiers for just 95 mun, which can subsequently mount an IHT and go win games. Or 4 man KCH for just 135 mun.
Not to mention that these rifle mandos would be VERY useful - they'd remain useful at long range, as well as being decent at short range, and I'd love to have a grenade platform for Brits that doesn't involve paying 165 mun for just the base.

Well said Mysthalin.

[Illegal_Carrot]

Completely agreed - paying 165 munitions for commandos is extortionate, considering you can get assault grenadiers for just 95 mun, which can subsequently mount an IHT and go win games. Or 4 man KCH for just 135 mun.
Not to mention that these rifle mandos would be VERY useful - they'd remain useful at long range, as well as being decent at short range, and I'd love to have a grenade platform for Brits that doesn't involve paying 165 mun for just the base.

Well said Mysthalin.

But those KCH have two less men, cannot instantly deploy anywhere on the map, and lack the Smoke ability that Commandos have.

[lionel23]

For 'two less men', those aren't your average 'rifleman', they are Knights Cross! They can run into a blob of two riflemen and pretty much rape the floor and not lose a guy.  They have extraordinary HP and armor and deadly weapons for a much lower cost than Commandoes (so you can essentially out attrition them in a squad vs squad war).

Commandoes also don't 'instantly' deploy anywhere.  And if they glider is within line of sight of anything.. BOOM, everyone inside dies instantly.  And that is EVERYONE in the whole call in.  At least with airborne, some of the guys can still land on the field and save the squad's vet, and they all parachute seperately making it very unlikely a pure mass airborne drop can be instantly neutered with one shot.

Next, lack of smoke...? Really?  Knights Cross have the ability to pretty much ignore suppression entirely, run into HMGs which will be lucky if they rip their clothes before their entire crew is raped (unless we're talking a vickers gun, but even then it will take longer than usual to suppress and subsequently pin them).

I'll have to agree with Mysthalin on this one.

[Illegal_Carrot]

For 'two less men', those aren't your average 'rifleman', they are Knights Cross! They can run into a blob of two riflemen and pretty much rape the floor and not lose a guy.  They have extraordinary HP and armor and deadly weapons for a much lower cost than Commandoes (so you can essentially out attrition them in a squad vs squad war).

Commandoes also don't 'instantly' deploy anywhere.  And if they glider is within line of sight of anything.. BOOM, everyone inside dies instantly.  And that is EVERYONE in the whole call in.  At least with airborne, some of the guys can still land on the field and save the squad's vet, and they all parachute seperately making it very unlikely a pure mass airborne drop can be instantly neutered with one shot.

Next, lack of smoke...? Really?  Knights Cross have the ability to pretty much ignore suppression entirely, run into HMGs which will be lucky if they rip their clothes before their entire crew is raped (unless we're talking a vickers gun, but even then it will take longer than usual to suppress and subsequently pin them).

I'll have to agree with Mysthalin on this one.

For the 'two less men,' I meant two less guns firing at any time, not less HP. I know that KCH are though motherfuckers, and I would never try to argue otherwise. The fact is, even with the doc-unlcoked 4 man KCH, Commandos still have a greater damage output.

Being able to drop a Glider wherever you want is a great advantage, and if it dies before the call-in deploys, then it's your fault for being an idiot with your placement. Unless you just so happen to land right in front of a tank that just finished repairing in some corner of the map, you've got no excuse for dead gliders.

And a lack of a suppression-breaking tool is hard felt by even KCH. Sure they remain standing after everyone else has hit the floor, but when they do get suppressed (for whatever reason), they don't have the 'Oh Shit!' button that Commandos, Rangers and Airborne have.