88's artyllery barrage [Artyllery experts]

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[CafeMilani]

whats its minimum range?
id increase its range by 5m since the 5m difference right now is like 1 p4 length..almost nothing

edit, i also agree with elitegren

[Baine]

Baine, the point of it is not to just put a good overall buff to the 88, but to buff all of your artillery pieces by a bit.

You seem to be forgetting the 50% damage bonus it is giving out to your stukas and nebels. It seems like that should be the main point of getting this doctrine choice, the 88 arty seems more like a nice little perk to go with it.

Yeah but still the 88 is one of the main units if not THE main unit the defensive company has. It should get a good buff after all, jsut like armor gets buffs to pershings/calliopes, Blitz gets buffs to Tigers/stuhs etc.

The 50% is a good thing but I'd like to see some improvement to the buff that it gives to 88.
Because it's the only buff it gets.

[CafeMilani]

Because it's the only buff it gets.

good point+

[DeutscherStahl]

Except defensive doesn't HAVE a main unit that it should be buffing over and over. Defensive is not like armour and blitz - defensive is about defense, and all options are about buffing the ability to defend, not buffing one unit to extreme status.

Pershings and Tigers get more buffs because they take up a huge chunk of your company's fuel, so the buffs are only applying once. You could have four or even more FlaK36s if you wanted to be drastic, and if every single one of them got multiple buffs it would be ridiculous.

[Smokaz]

I wouldnt mind 88 having a long range on its artillery barrage. Perhaps it could be balanced with a cooldown making the 88 not able to fire for 10-20 seconds after it has fired the arty barrage.

Defensive is wehrmacht's new primarily artillery focused doctrine, after all. Just look at the bonuses to nebels, stukas and the 88 to realize that. Officer supervision on their arty, sight bonuses, spotting without units.. it all points in the same direction.

On the flip side they have rather mediocre buffs to their infantry and armor. If the defensive player is allowed to play with his most buffed units, he will be doing a lot of damage. If he can sit in the back with his 88 and stuka/nebel and give scouting/spotting support and leadership support at the frontline with bikes/infantry/officer, he's utilizing his options well.

[Baine]

Except defensive doesn't HAVE a main unit that it should be buffing over and over. Defensive is not like armour and blitz - defensive is about defense, and all options are about buffing the ability to defend, not buffing one unit to extreme status.

Pershings and Tigers get more buffs because they take up a huge chunk of your company's fuel, so the buffs are only applying once. You could have four or even more FlaK36s if you wanted to be drastic, and if every single one of them got multiple buffs it would be ridiculous.

Sry but no.
Compare it to any other doctrine. It is and always will be the stepchild. And it still is a mediocre doctrine compared to others.
Blitzkrieg has enough options to go, stormies, lightning war with mass infantry, stuhs and infantry, or tigers or whatever.
Terror was known for offmaps, heavy infantry with zeal, even support buffs that probably were better than some defensive doctrine buffs, and the Kingtiger ofcourse.
And defensive? The first thing people will ask you if you have an 88 then. Because nothing else is coming from defensive. Stukas and nebels probably aswell but that is hardly anything compared to the others.

And now you guys start arguing over me asking for a range buff to the 88 ability that makes it actually better.
Did you see what kind of buffs the howitzer gets in the infantry doctrine? If i would use your logic then that should be immediately changed because it buffs the howitzer and there are so many other good buffs to rifles and rangers and even atgs!

Not to mention the 88 is a T2 unlock. And talking about overbuffed units that you fear so much. 2 Pershings, 2 Tigers, still possible afaik. Nobody will put more than 2 88s in the company because everything else is just fail.
You can't even move that thing.

You made me angry. Gratulations.

[CafeMilani]

I wouldnt mind 88 having a long range on its artillery barrage. Perhaps it could be balanced with a cooldown making the 88 not able to fire for 10-20 seconds after it has fired the arty barrage.

there is no point at all for clever players to use it then because clever opponents would attack just when its disabled. in 20 seconds many things can happen in coh.

further, im against a very high range for its arty barrage 1. because it wont happen anyways caus tym would once more cry like a baby about his dying vet3 howies and 2. it would be op.

i still think 105m is a bit low.

[Smokaz]

Clever opponents also attack teh calliope when its firing.

[CafeMilani]

Clever opponents also attack teh calliope when its firing.

that is something quite different

[Unkn0wn]

Calliope's main gun works (provided you've got NGV) when firing the rocket racks :p

[Sixpack]

there is no point at all for clever players to use it then because clever opponents would attack just when its disabled. in 20 seconds many things can happen in coh.

further, im against a very high range for its arty barrage 1. because it wont happen anyways caus tym would once more cry like a baby about his dying vet3 howies and 2. it would be op.

i still think 105m is a bit low.

Hm, if I had read this thread before viewing the defensive tree I wouldn´t even have chosen it......

Could have gone terror instead *sigh*

[Baine]

Clever opponents also attack teh calliope when its firing.

Yeah, and clever opponents have time to attack the 88 when it fires its barrage aswell. No need for extra time-outs.

[DeutscherStahl]

boohoo, one of your t3s isn't overpowered. defense is far from a useless doctrine.

[Mysthalin]

Calliope fires it's payload in something about 5 seconds. 3 shells for howitzer type artillery usually means at least 8 seconds(if not 12) of delivering the payload(Yes, I am too tired to check atm).

Also, I completely agree with Baine. It makes no sense that the 88 barrage is just a few metres longer than the standard fire mode. Honestly, it's still a howitzer type weapon - it gets blocked by houses and hedges. Should a mortar be firing on the 88, that's where it's gonna be hiding - behind a hedge or a house, and you still can't kill it - T3 or not.
If the mortar isn't behind some sort of cover.. Why bother with the barrage? Just direct fire at the thing - you'll also happen to be a lot more accurate.

[Baine]

boohoo, one of your t3s isn't overpowered. defense is far from a useless doctrine.

I see no use to argue with you.

[DeutscherStahl]

I wasn't even talking to you about that, I was talking to the guy who said he wouldn't have picked the doctrine if he knew it had only 105m range on the 88.

[Mysthalin]

If he was picking the doctrine ENTIRELY for the 88s with barrage, then yeah, his claim that he shouldn't of picked it is kind of valid.

[Baine]

Yeah but you still incline that it would be overpowered if it had better range. And why flamebait him if it's his right to choose doctrines for special abilities? If it is not what he thought no need to give him that shit.

[DeutscherStahl]

It's not like he picked it for a special ability and didn't get the special ability. He picked it, he can get his special ability, and it won't be overpowered.

88s are already balanced as they are. They cut off a huge portion of the map to assault and seriously punish any armour that even accidentally enters 100m range. The trade off is that they can't move and they take up a lot of pop plus take pop to defend well, so your area of influence is small but very strong. You play statically, you hold some ground, you can't really move around to defend other areas or capture and hold further ground. But the ground you have is going to be really hard to lose.

Giving the 88 the ability to influence a much large portion of the map is a big deal when it comes to the balance of the 88. Well defend 88s are incredibly hard to take out, and giving it the ability to help out over a much large area would be absolutely ridiculous. The ability as it is already gives a massive buff in 50% damage increaes to your other arty pieces, and it gives the 88 a much better ability to engage infantry, and more important, provides a counter to the 88s cheapest decrew method, a Mortar.

[Sixpack]

I wasn't even talking to you about that, I was talking to the guy who said he wouldn't have picked the doctrine if he knew it had only 105m range on the 88.

Realy difficult to find a name.....

Well, you don´t know about my playstile so it is obvious why you make random comments that seem to fit in.

But let me help you: I decide on a company and a company build I want to achive following a certain tactic and theme. My idea here was to make a nice defensive company that was infantry heavy with light stug support and okish artillery (which should have been the 88s). Obviously the whole thing goes down the drain when you misread important information.

The last time it was a SE PE company that was extremly into terrorizing my enemies but very low on at. It only started to look not so bad when I had my Panther at vet 3.