[SE] P4 IST moving lockdown

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[Groundfire]

So, i got to watch a replay last night, and apparently SE has an ability to allow their doctrine's ISTs to lock down and move at the same time.

Now, i have not faced this myself yet and I dont know what tier ability this is, but to my knowledge, when you get this ability, the IST locks down for rapid fire but still can move as if it was never locked down at all. No speed reduction, no impeded movement.

This seems incredibly powerful, not only do you get rid of the weakness of what is otherwise a very powerful ability in the first place, the IST, with it's massive RoF are now capable of chasing down and murdering kiting infantry, and even some of the weaker armored tank destroyers with rapid fire rear shots.

(Edit- Ok, apparently the tank moves at 3.5, but it still seems very powerful)

I mean, i can see lock down with half speed movement being acceptable but full speed while in lock down seems to boarder on the OP. Only ostwinds are capable of this kind of mobility and RoF, but the P4 actually has the armor to get in close and gun down it's counters.

What is the general consensus on this ability?

I feel that it should only allow the IST to move at half speed, but i have not faced it yet so I cannot draw my own real conclusions, but i would like to open up the discussion for those who have used it and fought against it.

[Mysthalin]

It moves at 3.5 speed instead of it's usual 5.
KT has 3 speed, for example.

[Groundfire]

gah, see i slowed down my replay just to make sure, but i still couldnt notice a significant difference.

What speed do infantry run at?

[EliteGren]

Why is it moving at 3.5?
50% of 5 = 2.5

[Groundfire]

IMO, infantry should have at least a chance to outrun the thing, provided the tank is not on a road. Giving chase would still give the IST kills, but eventually if the squad survived long enough, it should be able to outrun the locked down tank.

The replay I watched seemed to prove otherwise.

[Smokaz]

Nah, stickies hardcounter this unit. Throw one sticky, engine disabled, IST can't keep up with them locked down. At the range lockdown is effective, 3.5 speed being reduced by engine damage makes infantry escape it with ease.

I've played 5-6 games with it, and the only time moving lockdown was good was against infantry without any AT or VD's.

I'd rather move forward we give moving lockdown to marders as well. Currently SE is starved for viable AT options. Same speed. (3.5)

Overall, very overrated T3. They see moving lockdown and go like HAX! but they don't seem to comment (the opposing team) on the 4 kill ists dying to any type of at.

If you saw that replay, ground, perhaps you noticed how well a OBM pershing company did against SE too?

[Mysthalin]

Infantry move at 4 speed, 5 if sprinting, 3 if crawling.
(or 3 4 2 respectively, I keep forgetting). Where's that bloody gamesguy when we need him?

[Tymathee]

3 4 2, you're right Myst. and when i saw smokaz using it, it wasn't like "whoa, awesome, look at it raping" it's more like a Stuka in some rights, when u use it, infantry scatter but dont get hurt.

[CafeMilani]

GIVE ME THE REPLAY I WANNA SEE OP ISTs!!!

[shockcoil]

You're all barking up the wrong tree, the other T3 for ISTs is much better. Seriously I've seen it in action and that flame round is like a AVRE shell; anything unlucky enough to get hit by is either dead or as good as.

[CafeMilani]

u mean the incendiary shell for the IST?

cmon guys, post more replays!!!

[Mysthalin]

When I saw smokie using it, I was like "ok, my allies are having a bit of trouble with it". Then I stickied all his ISTs and we ignored them for the remainder of the game.

[Smokaz]

Exactly. You cant fight sticky squads with this unit. Seeing as this is a T3 Dedicated short range anti infantry machine, being negated by a non-doctrinal vet 2 unit with a 60 muni upgrade.. there's zero problem. Just... counter it? please?

[C0redian]

I'm not sure if it's OP since Mysthalin's t3 was hardcouter for IST but that was just unlucky coincidence, but it may look OP, first I was like OMG bugged moving ist with lockdown?

[Groundfire]

Nearly every tank becomes useless after a sticky or 2, so i dont see why that's a justification.
again, I have not played it, just making observations.


Also smokaz, the pershing was so amazing b/c 2 of the players spammed tanks that could not damage it.

[Smokaz]

Nearly every tank becomes useless after a sticky or 2, so i dont see why that's a justification.
again, I have not played it, just making observations.


Also smokaz, the pershing was so amazing b/c 2 of the players spammed tanks that could not damage it.

IST range justifies this.

[Malevolence]

One thing to consider, this is only tangentially on topic, but a slight buff to P4 IST penetration could be nice. Bouncing off things like T17s is just silly. Infantry support tanks should protect infantry from their most common nemeses - fortifications, other infantry, and bullet proof light vehicles with all those machinegunney death mounts on them.

[CafeMilani]

your are not srsly saying locked down ist moving at half speed it op? are thee no other doctrines/doctrine abilities to fix? groundfire you said you didnt even face one of them. stickies almost immobilizes ISTs, button is stupidfixing as we all know. so why even make a thread about it. thats like saying 'it could be op, get ready to beat it down nerfhammer!'

[Groundfire]

your are not srsly saying locked down ist moving at half speed it op? are thee no other doctrines/doctrine abilities to fix? groundfire you said you didnt even face one of them. stickies almost immobilizes ISTs, button is stupidfixing as we all know. so why even make a thread about it. thats like saying 'it could be op, get ready to beat it down nerfhammer!'

A.) Check your shit. I said it was OP at full speed, acceptable at half, but I do not feel as if the IST should be able to chase down infantry in locked down mode. Its just stupid.

B.) ISTs get no more prone to being immobolized than any other tank.

C.) Tanks that rely on short range wtf auto cannons are prone to being stickied. Expect it. That doesnt make something not op just because the normal ways for combating the tank havent changed. This is a significant boost to the tank's capabilities, and i feel that we should have a discussion about it.

[gamesguy2]

A.) Check your shit. I said it was OP at full speed, acceptable at half, but I do not feel as if the IST should be able to chase down infantry in locked down mode. Its just stupid.

B.) ISTs get no more prone to being immobolized than any other tank.

C.) Tanks that rely on short range wtf auto cannons are prone to being stickied. Expect it. That doesnt make something not op just because the normal ways for combating the tank havent changed. This is a significant boost to the tank's capabilities, and i feel that we should have a discussion about it.

Why?  Currently the IST underperforms compared to the much cheaper ostwind with no doctrine abilities buffing the ostwind.  Can your infantry run away from an ostwind?  No.  Then why should they be able to run away from an IST that has 10 less range and with a t3 buffing it?

ISTs are prone to being stickied because it only has 30 range, most tanks have 40 range.  In addition, there are no other tanks that require lock down to become effective.

There are no tanks other than the IST that relies on short range auto-cannons.  Ostwind has 40 range.

Currently it's very easy to run away from a locked down IST.  Go around corners and through cover.  Infantry have 3 speed, IST only 3.5 speed.  But infantry don't slow down running through cover or around corners, where as the IST does.   And once you get outside of its firing range, it ain't going to catch up with only 0.5 speed advantage.

The mobile platforms T3 and the IST in general is still weak atm.