Wirblewind vs Ostwind?

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[kitekaze]

So, I and my friends came up with this discussion another day. We think that it's worse to bring up a topic.

The wirblewind flakpanzer is Panzer Elite's Luftwaffe T2 Doctrinal Unit. The wirblewind, right now, has very limited in fighting with aircraft(scout plane). Most aircraft will escape with flakvierling bug(*). Wirble might suppress enemy infantry from afar, but fail to kill them. Wirble is much more like a MG aboard PIV. And its fuel cost is 140.

The ostwind is Wehrmacht Non-doctrinal Unit. Ostwind also suffer the same bug as wirble. But thanks to ostwind's firepower and accuracy, planes are almost vulnerable it. Ostwind is blob's nightmare, and take out infantry one by one from its 37mm gun. Ostwind is just like a puma aboard PIV. And its fuel cost is 160(?).

So which one is best choice? If there's balance involved, what proposal would you make?

(*)To explain about the bug, flak will shoot aircraft one burst at beginning, and shoot several more ONLY when they're near the flak, flak88 isn't affected by this.

[Demon767]

Myst, What is the DPS on the wirble compared to the Flak38?

and what is the range of the wirble

[Jinker]

Ostwinds can have a really, really, really hard time hitting targets sometimes. They have low hp as well.

[VERTIGGO]

They are also even slower than PIVs so ATGs squish them like bugs. The Wirblewind inflicts little damage but is good at suppression. The Ostwind does do some serious damage if it can avoid constantly missing. It's random whether or not an encounter with a blob will be effective or suicide.

[Mysthalin]

It's hard to calculate the DPS on the ostwind because it has splash damage.

Needless to say, however, that the ostwind is FAR more damaging than the wirblewind.

However, the wirblewind has some immense suppression values at medium and close range. It has the same burst duration as an MG42, yet slower Rate of Fire.

This is a direct comparison of total suppression per burst dealt from the Wirblewind and the MG42(you need to apply 0.2 suppression to suppress, 0.6 to pin) :


                 MG42       Wirble
Long           0.45          0.26
Medium       0.54          0.65
Short          0.54         0.975

So the Wirblewind is, arguably, the best suppression weapon in the game.

It does boast about three times the accuracy of the HMG42 at long range, and nearly 3 times the damage. But, it pays for it in 2.66 times less shots per second. Making it deal, on average, about 3 times as much damage per second versus infantry armour. That being said - MG42s aren't exactly known for their immense killing power at long range, so it's nothing to write a book on. Not only that, the wirblewind has a 0.5 moving accuracy modifier. It completely neuters the unit's ability to effectively kill stuff.

At short and medium range, the wirblewind will pin most infantry in one burst. Once infantry is pinned, they receive a 0.5 accuracy and 0.5 damage modifier against wirblewind fire(The MG42 gets 0.25 acc 0.25 dmg - it's why you can stay there after being pinned for around an hour and not die).


Anyway - even though the wirble is a very capable suppression platform and IS somewhat damaging, it does not justify itself costing 160 FU. If I really want mobile suppression as PE, I'll buy the 185 MP, 50 MU, 30 FU Scout Car with MG42 upgrade. Sure, the scout car dies pretty fast, but it's a very speedy vehicle, unlike the wirble, and it costs 3 times less in popcap.
The armour on the wirblewind is only good enough to withstand Stuart/Stag shots (70 percent chance of penetration), T17 shots and Greyhound shots. It has a mere 400 health, which makes it immensely easy to kill.

I would personally propose reducing the price to roughly 125 FU and the popcap value to 8.

[Nero3X[W]]

It's the best suppression weapon in the game alright, but what good does it do when Allied have suppression break skills. And even rifle have stickies and Zoos, they can disable its speed and (not) die then Rangers and ABs  come raping
Same goes for the OST. But it is good, only if you're lucky. I had a 3 vetted Ost, and it missed its target all the time.

[BigDick]

wirble could need some zook/light vehicle protection imho because currently it get owned by almost everything except riflemen

[LeoPhone]

AP ROUNDS!

[Tymathee]

It's the best suppression weapon in the game alright, but what good does it do when Allied have suppression break skills. And even rifle have stickies and Zoos, they can disable its speed and (not) die then Rangers and ABs  come raping
Same goes for the OST. But it is good, only if you're lucky. I had a 3 vetted Ost, and it missed its target all the time.

If u try to run the fire up squad right at the wirble, the wirble will destroy it, i've seen it happen, just like the mg42. the mg42 actually does really really good damage but because it suppresses so fast, and it has the suppression modifier, it doesn't do a lot of damage. I've had many a infantry killed by walking too close to an mg42.

[gamesguy2]

Charging a wirblewind with fireup infantry is like charging a quad, you will die.

[nugnugx]

ost is better because you can take on light veh

[skaffa]

Wirblewind should be like a Quad but then way way better, too bad its kinda shit.

[Nero3X[W]]

Charging a wirblewind with fireup infantry is like charging a quad, you will die.

I've seen his full health Wirble got owned by 2 fired up ABs, while they lost just 2-4 men.

If u try to run the fire up squad right at the wirble, the wirble will destroy it, i've seen it happen, just like the mg42. the mg42 actually does really really good damage but because it suppresses so fast, and it has the suppression modifier, it doesn't do a lot of damage. I've had many a infantry killed by walking too close to an mg42.

I never said  to run  "right at the wirble", just close enough to fire RRs or Zoos.

[3rdCondor]

How about you use your wirblewind to suppress for my ostwind?

[Baine]

Wirble will kill every recon plane.

I prefer Wirble over Ostwinds, they can suppress AT infantry (zooka rifles at least) in blobs and they do pretty good damage with Vet.

[BigDick]

BaineFail

you don't even play PE, and wirble get taken out be RRs and zooks easily

[Baine]

That's my memory from Reinforcement packages, Wirble made a great addition to my 88

[BigDick]

that was before relic fixed the burst fire bug

there you could pin AT gun crews and stuff

but now the wirble is just a weak piece of ***

[Smokaz]

Wirbelwind will be discussed, I've been displeased with this unit for a long time.