Churchill Crocodile

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Tymathee]

i usually dont have issues with crocs, they're slow and with the high pop usually takes a lot to support it. Use lat's to disable + 50's and they're raped or lat's + panther or lat's + marder

for wehr, you gotta use mines (both explosive and trap) panthers, tigers, stugs (usually a ping, ping, ping fight but it's a good distraction) upgun puma's can be pretty nasty vs them and a real good harasser.

[jackmccrack]

But they are only 13 pop. That's 1 more than a Sherman.

[Tymathee]

But they are only 13 pop. That's 1 more than a Sherman.

 

 1 pop can be the difference between bringing in something you need and having to wait for the pop to uptick or running something off.

[jackmccrack]

Still it is low for a tank of such caliber.

[Tymathee]

kinda true but all the higher pop tanks are multi-purpose or great tank killer. The Tiger, Pershing, Panther, King Tiger, Jagdpanther. all the other tanks are 12 minus, while i think the lowest of the heavies is 15 and that's the panther which easily takes out the churchill. I think 13 pop is fine just raise the fuel so it's not used as the main tank and is more of a special unit.

[NightRain]

Churchill Crocodile should be counted as a Pershing/Tiger and max allowance should be 2x

Why?

While Crocodile has a decent Armor like Tiger and Pershing it is as well a Tier 3 (?) unlock like Pershing and Tiger.

Tiger is good at taking on infantry and on armor, similar to Pershing while Crocodile sacrifices its anti armor cabilities to decent but has a awsome flamethrower that burns the hell out from everything.

My purpose is:

Churchill is considered as Heavy tank and Limit should be 2.

[LeoPhone]

Churchill Crocodile should be counted as a Pershing/Tiger and max allowance should be 2x

Why?

While Crocodile has a decent Armor like Tiger and Pershing it is as well a Tier 3 (?) unlock like Pershing and Tiger.

Tiger is good at taking on infantry and on armor, similar to Pershing while Crocodile sacrifices its anti armor cabilities to decent but has a awsome flamethrower that burns the hell out from everything.

My purpose is:

Churchill is considered as Heavy tank and Limit should be 2.

an uber big gun is still much more usefull than a flamethrower coz the result is basically that there are 0 hard counters for that unit.

pershing and tiger health is also 1000+ while the croc's health is 900.

[CrazyWR]

churchill armor is much tougher than a pershing/tiger though isn't it?

[Mysthalin]

Pershing and Tiger armour is better than the churchil armour(excluding some... oddities), but they cost a LOT more than the crocodile churchil.

If you know it's VS a Churchill croc try and get the Pak in water/Negative cover or Open cover at least. that will keep you alive to damage it. Pretty sure upgunned Hotckhiss does good on these things Fausts do 170/hit. P4's are something like 70-80% penetration? heck I think even stugs are 55 or 60

Fausts only deal 100-125 damage per shot against churchil, brn. With hulldown, this goes down to 75-93.75 damage per shot, with a 75 percent chance of penetration.

P4s only have 58 percent penetration. Not 70-80.
The stug gun is overall better against armour than the P4, brn, thought you would know that.
However, it also has 58 percent penetration against Churchills.

Either way - that's lower than, per say, sherman armour. Do not downplay the fact the churchil armour IS better than most other allied armour types.

[Smokaz]

Stug gun has the sherman modifier, it dont thin it extends dominance over the p4 gun other that. at least note worthy of attention

Well waddaya know.

25% extra damage vs M8, M10s
50% extra damage vs shermans, bren carriers *lol*

[Mysthalin]

13 percent more penetration on top of 50 percent more damage versus shermans is quite an important anti-tank factor, IMO.
25 percent more damage against M10s is also important.

[Armfelt]

The churchills is lumbersome and slow and is infantry tanks, that can kill light vehicles. They have a hard time against other tanks, panthers rofls at them (panthers that every axis player can have, churchills are doctrinal).
Crocodile churchills are REs ultimate tank, compared to jagdpanthers,Kingtigers and Pershings. It is a bit cheaper but all the other real heavies are good against other tanks, Churchill crocs and the other churchills are not.

I'd say it is OK as it is.

[UnderHeavyFire]

I agree it needs a price increase.

[Mysthalin]

Just because it's the RE's ultimate tank, armfelt, doesn't mean it can have a "I can be OP" card.


For panthers? I just drop down smoke, widely available on the rifle grenadier platform. If that is not available, then I'm definitely going to have a 57mm around, and I'll simply outDPS the panther as it attempts to take out my churchil croc.

[Armfelt]

Just because it's an allied tank, mysthalin, doesn't  mean that it need to be "sucky-sucky".

I have no more problem with crocodiles as axis as I have with panthers as allies. Panthers are a little more expensive, but still not doctrinal. Allies is better as anti infantry, and axis is better as anti tank.

For churchills I just kill them with either two clowncars and a marder with my tankhunter account or just pwn it with a fast panther as blitz. All that is needed is to know where they have atg. It is just needed to be careful and recon. People should'nt always believe that it is just to steam roll allied vehicles.

Royal Engineers is the only doctrine in CW that spec on tanks. And looking on the doctrine abilities, they are pretty lame/boring. The only thing that makes it intresting is it's vehicles and Boys AT rifles. But sure if, if the doctrine abilities gets a buff, then I would agree with a price change of units.

[Mysthalin]

If you are implying the churchil is sucky-sucky, then you're somewhat mislead in it's capabilities, Armfelt.


The panther costs 50 percent more fuel and 2 more pop than a crocodile churchil - it's quite logical to assume it's somewhat harder to deal with than a churchil croc.


2 clowncars and a marder? Don't you think 3 separate sources of AT for one tank is a bit... much? Especially when it costs just 90 Fuel more than the regular Sherman, or 10 fuel more than a firefly.

Doctrinal abilities? A 300 extra health and 75 percent received penetration button without recharge as a T2 is lame? I would disagree. Boys AT rifles are kind of fail, the 6 pounder is far more adequate, but either way - it's irrelevant to the discussion.

[n8d0g]

All I keep hearing is "OP".

I run a churchhill croc company. I think most of you know it.

Yes, they are powerful. But I pay a T2 (Hull down), a T3 (Hobart's Funnies) and a 3rd unlock on the bottom table to get them like that. The T4 is a nice bonus but not necessary.

First off. I dont know how many of you actually try to run this type of company (as far as I'm aware you're all talking about me). Its hard, a lot of resources gets devoted to those 4 tanks. I mean alot. Your AT guns and rifles spend more of the game hanging around the churchill.

Secondly It sucks on AT. yes, you can bren spam but 4 AT guns later you'll have a max of 10 brens. And thats pretty much all your munitions gone ( i have 2 unlocks of munitions). You're also out of fuel for mobile AT (firefly) and defiantly none for the OP Stag/Bren MMG spam.

Thirdly. Everyone sends wrong counters. I have send people in this thread SIT IN FRONT of my croc with Shrek infantry. That is wrong. Best counter is stacked up AT ( Pak+marder/P4 or Panther). No shit 1 my croc is going to roll your SINGLE PAK. A US croc could do that. OR. Why not try a co-ordinated multiplayer attack to drive off the AT? On more than one occasion my crocs have been stripped bare of protection because a tiger rolls up after a hummel barrage on AT gun positions( or mortars).
A more strategic approach would be better. Most of us here have mics/vent. If you're not using it to the full then thats your own fault.

Another fine counter I've used myself and seen others use are hotchkisses, 2 will take out 1 croc. ANd tank hunters works nicely too.

Final point. Cut back on the nerf chat. This mod has already lost players to constant nerfs to units. It really constricts the game. More often than not a nerf here will just make people break the game elsewhere. I mean, all you really that bothered over croc spam compared to T17/Kangeroo spam? EIR has constantly be getting rid of neat/cool abilities for alot of units (storm troopers running at vet 3/ Stuart Shotgun/ double tap snipers) More restrictions just make the game boring. Of course we need balance but try to keep it within logical arguments. I mean, honestly comparing a Churchill to a KT/Pershing is a bit drastic no?

Frankly, if I couldn't run a croc company, in  its would in place have 8 Mark IVs churchills with double repairs. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

PS. I love clown cars. My crocs end those for snacks in between the vet infantry.

[slyguy7447]

I also think it's fine where it is now.  TBH it's nice for the allies to have a tank that may require some tactical thought to take out instead of "oh they've got shermans?  i'll park my panther here FTW."

FWIW, i use only a single croc in my company, and it usually ends up dead most games, as people concentrate fire on it once it starts shredding axis inf.  I have also seen several people run up with schreck squads and try to take it out, which is just asking for the squad to be raped really.

[Mysthalin]

You give yourself too much credit nate - the thread sprung up after eternal's game against me.
I've been arguing from my OWN point of view - which is games both with and against the crocodile. Not to mention that me and david were the original crocspammers that cultivated the first wave of nerfs of the unit - it has been problematic for more than just the last few days.


With 4 crocs and 3 stags, I'm quite set for anti inf. I field anywhere between 6-8 ATGs with them, depending on how I feel playing like at the moment. The 8-9 brens I have with that completes my infantry, and I even manage to cram in 4 rifle nades for putting down smoke for my crocs.

It's definitely not about wrong counters, nate. Sure, a pak and a P4 will beat up a churchil crocodile, but this is ignoring the 1-2 AT guns a churchil croc will always, under almost any circumstances, have in support - which will turn around the engagement in favor of the croc. If a croc is not supported by AT - it's either being used stupidly, or the croc user has been double-teamed or artied. One way or another - that is a disproportionate ammount of popcap and resources that are needed to be put into beating a single crocodile with it's Anti tank hosts.

Final point. Cut back on the nerf chat. This mod has already lost players to constant nerfs to units. It really constricts the game. More often than not a nerf here will just make people break the game elsewhere.

If someone plays the game only to win with imbalances - then good riddance. If they, however, do not wish to ruin the game for others and find imbalances merely by trying to make their favourite company, then great - they're being an invaluable asset to balance.

neat/cool abilities for alot of units (storm troopers running at vet 3/ Stuart Shotgun/ double tap snipers)

Neat/cool for the user - but far from the same for the recieving end. They just find it unbalanced and annoying. Though I do agree the stuart shotgun was fine.

Frankly, if I couldn't run a croc company, in  its would in place have 8 Mark IVs churchills with double repairs. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

8 MK IVs or 20 kettenkrads. Equally as scary.

[NightRain]

I'd be more scared of the kettengrads tbh

The mark churchill VI makes me laugh at its face