Knights Cross desperately need a buff/s

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[UndeathWrath]

They should be able to hold their own against commandos but as of now they just get slaughtered.

They can't even take on a rifle squad with bars....pretty sad

Also keep in mind that cost wise, 1 KCH squad = very close to 2 Volks with mp40s squads

2 volks with mp40s can crush a bar riflemen squad, and can go head to head with 2 bar riflemen squads if cover is available to avoid suppression fire. Therefore a KCH squad should be able to crush a bar riflemen squad and be able to take on 2 if the KCH has cover.

makes sense no?

[NightRain]

Anything that rushes anything in cover is doomed to lose..unless you have handgrenades/smoke with you.

1 COmmando squad costs munwise more than 1 KCH squad + Doctorine Unlock.

It is Commandos who sould be buff'd either by taking muncost away and give rifles instead or lowering the muncost. They are the second worst elite infantry tbh while FJ are the worst (in assault that is they are best in defence but everything is good on defence)

[105TigerHunters]

They can't even take on a rifle squad with bars....pretty sad

I would like to see this, the only time i have ever seen this is if the KCH are charging the BAR squad in cover and have been suppressed...

KCH vs BAR in open bars dont fair that well, if your not using KCH correctly thats user error not a need for a buff.

Tip - if you run into a full health BAR squad run KCH into cover and allow the squad to charge, the bars wont even get to the cover ...

[Dragon2008]

Im jus wondering don't the KCH av the highest suppression resistance than any unit in the game? KCH is an assualt unit, and is not ment to hold ground but rush in and take ground.

If your KCH r getting pinned by bar squads then im guessing you should use cover which greatly reducess the suppression rate. Charging any unit really that has supression ability or capability is a stupid thing to do.

[Nevyen]

All valid tips here,  KCH can take on commando's and it about how you use them.

Fire and Maneuver as well as effective use of bounding overwatch tactics usually help KCH get to the front and make their presence felt.

Also attacking from the flanks and seeking to engage units enfilade rather than front on, and ensuring you do not attack a unit in a defilade position, where natural cover gives them the advantage.

If you do come up against such a position such as a wall or green cover, then it better to pin them with mortar fire or MG fire, or even distract with a weaker unit, work the KCH on the flank and assault. Additionally if AT assets are thin on the filed then shield the unit in a transport and deploy them using the transport to pin and or suppress  the unit.

KCH shine in two's where there is a redundancy in play so if one gets gibed or when in conjunction with a combined arms assault.

Either way they are easy to VET are very effective in their assault role and are a valuable addition to wher formations.

[Pak88mm]

KCH suck. The only way really to use em is to use em as flankers to attack vunerable support teams and weak squads. Otherwise you will lose to pretty much everything but the vanilla rifles, recon squad, rifle nades and engies. Heck even flame engies might pose a problem. they arent worth the cost honestly. Just buy grens and they can actually fight better.

[3rdCondor]

KCH suck. The only way really to use em is to use em as flankers to attack vunerable support teams and weak squads. Otherwise you will lose to pretty much everything but the vanilla rifles, recon squad, rifle nades and engies. Heck even flame engies might pose a problem. they arent worth the cost honestly. Just buy grens and they can actually fight better.

He's right. I only use KCH with other infantry as sort of a "heavier" addition to a blob. Ex: 2 volks + gren + KCH. They do a decent amount of damage from what I can see, but I would never charge them into combat...at least not unless something was changed.

[Pak88mm]

in old EiR vet 3 KCH could not be suppressed........i think that needs to be brought back. Keep in mind they are the only specialized assault troops that has no way of breaking suppression.

[CafeMilani]

was op. i had them when i started playing eir and i won 

[Dragon2008]

in old EiR vet 3 KCH could not be suppressed........i think that needs to be brought back. Keep in mind they are the only specialized assault troops that has no way of breaking suppression.

In old EIR that unit was OP and the only way to beat it was to focus fire on that unit with everything or bring in a tank to deal with them.

No unit should be able to beat it's counter. I don't care how expensive or strong that unit is. TBH if u run ur KCH into a unit which can suppress you and then you get suppressed its ur own stupid fault.

[Malevolence]

And who's to say that their counter is machineguns?


Why do you think they carry assault grenades (in the normal game)?... They are not supposed to be killed by getting pinned and bombed, they are supposed to be the best assault troops who can do anything but cost you an arm and a leg (and as a result were never cost effective, unfortunately).


Given they only carry panzerfausts their counter IS tanks, which you just fucking mentioned. KCH are supposed to kill anything squishy, period. That is their job as defined.

[Dragon2008]

And who's to say that their counter is machineguns?


Why do you think they carry assault grenades (in the normal game)?... They are not supposed to be killed by getting pinned and bombed, they are supposed to be the best assault troops who can do anything but cost you an arm and a leg (and as a result were never cost effective, unfortunately).


Given they only carry panzerfausts their counter IS tanks, which you just fucking mentioned. KCH are supposed to kill anything squishy, period. That is their job as defined.

Last time I checked MG's ment to lock down areas and stop any attack (Assualt) been launched against a certain point. I don't see why I should have to bring on a tank to deal with some assualt troops of any kind. Also when you assualt an selected area, it is usually the weakest part in the line. (flanking MG's/ATG's/mortars) or jus plain assualt one unit defending an area. (single alone rifles/engs/tommies).

People just think these days you can rush two KCH straight into MG's or a few squads of rifles with bars and destroy them without taking any damage in return. Im sry to say but thats stupid and just plain arrogant.

[brn4meplz]

Assault units have their place. KCH are no different. They can perform quite well given the circumstances. the issue is usually cost and attrition. If your company isn't designed for it having 2-4 KCH squads when instead you could have 5-6 Volks with MP40's is going to kill you.

[Smokaz]

KCH excel at counter rushing stuff that tries to blobkill your paks etc. Rushing in against garrisons and cover etc doesnt work as well.

[Mysthalin]

in old EiR vet 3 KCH could not be suppressed........i think that needs to be brought back. Keep in mind they are the only specialized assault troops that has no way of breaking suppression.

Assault Grens, FSJ, Stormtroopers with STG44s.

[SX23]

Once again, I'll take for axis, but they don't need "desperatly" a buff. Yeah, they perform quite well in some situations, but they should indeed be buffed a little better. For now, tbh, I'd take a mp44 grens squad and it'll do the job just as well, even better sometimes.

[CommanderHolt]

If they really need a buff, just give them back their old Heroic armor as a buff in general of maybe a Terror doctrinal choice.

(Was .65 (or .5?) Damage and accuarcy, now I think it is .75)

[Mysthalin]

Armor types were never that simple, Holt.
Each and every single weapon has different variables against different armour types - you can't generalise it with .65 or .75.

For instance - BARs have 0.4 dmg and 0.75 acc vs Soldier armour, whereas garands are only 0.6 damage and no acc multipliers.

[Groundfire]

KCH still have their "heroic armor" type.

Just had an idea,

who has tried to use KCH with a Battle Hardened company?

Because at base, KCH get their heroic armor bonuses, and an adittional -15% incomming acc. So this would pretty much make KCH have Heroic armor + (mini) Elite armor at the same time. Add in vet 1 rec. acc bonuses and everything would have a hard time hitting the KCH.

short range BAR + Heroic armor + Battle Hardened + vet 1 KCH

.75 x .85 x .85 x .85 = .46 (46% chance to hit BH KCH @vet1 w/ a BAR)

Add that on top of the already .75 dmg modifier you get from Heroic armor, BARs would be no obstacle for KCH.


Go sandbox this Smokaz!


Edit: Just cross checked Heroic armor vs. the 30. cal and the numbers are the same, so short range 30.cal has a 46% chance to hit BH KCH as well... Just epic.

[CommanderHolt]

Yes, I'm aware that KCH still have Heroic armor, but back in the day when there was no such thing as OF, Heroic armor got nerfed which was more or less a KCH nerf with a slight manpower price decrease (fat lot of help that did.), so, maybe as a doctrinal choice they get there old armor back?

P.S: I just rember vaguely that the changelog said something about it being changed from .65 Damage/Recieved accuracy to .75.