Vehicle Spam

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[nated0g]

Panther over 1200mP? No thanks man.

What vehicles are we talking about specifically??

Stags/T17s/ 50MMs.? These are vehicles that many have issues with.

If that is the case, I'd hardly call for all vehicles to have prices jacked up so high.

Even faction specific would be nice. All i keep seeing is this vague "people spam too many vehicles".

[Unkn0wn]

What about increasing all vechicles fuel cost (with no exceptions) by 50% and mp cost by 20%.

Why would we do that when we could just alter the fuel amounts and lower artillery unit prices to compensate if necessary.
I also don't see why MP levels would need to go up.

I'm under the impression (light) 'vehicle spam' is primarily an issue with the allies (Staghound and T17 in particular) so an across the board fuel reduction or price increase for all vehicles is probably not the best approach. We'll be looking into it though.

[tank130]

why not just reduce the availability of light vehicles. Hard cap them.

[nated0g]

If we hardcap units, surely that just blurs EIR with OMG even more.

We should consider other solutions before we hardcap anything.

[Mysthalin]

How about people stop theorycrafting on how they keep getting outplayed and begin outplaying the Light Vehicle users themselves? .

Stags and T17s could be somewhat underpriced(by 10-20 FU) - but they're not the godlike pwn-all rape machines people are trying to make them out to be.

[LeoPhone]

LOWER THEIR HEALTH.

the stag is 50 fuel, and it gives you a uber fast light vehicle that does alot of dmg. (like m8) only then with the same health of a tank.

if you want to increase fuel of stag it should become 150 fuel, but it still remains a retarded OP unit since its so fast, does so much dmg and has so much HP.

pretty much the same with t17 but then less massive since its a doctirne unit and doesnt kill tanks.

[lionel23]

If we're going to complain about the T17, then something needs to be looked at the ridiculous stuff PE can do with griefing companies, which I have fought Smokaz and EliteGren's crap in regards to that.

Mass LIGHT AT HTs backed up by 50mms, shooting retreating squads and using a single inf HT to pin all your men (by running up to you), the 50mms blow away tanks and ATGs with their high rate of fire, excellent mobility (no setup time, really?) and the Light ATs can stop any infantry or tank rush due to their mass sniping.  My last game the axis had no infantry on the field for 5-6 minutes and it was just pure griefing from nothing but pure HTs.  They need a price OR pool increase to stop low level companies from deliberately doing that.

[Smokaz]

I HAD 1 LATHT! ONE!

[Jodomar]

yes, i was in that game and it was stupid. You couldn't do much and it wasn't fun at all to play. May I add that all this killing retreating vet units is making me not want to play anymore. The main two units that grief would be the pe armored cars that chase your retreating units all the way back to spawn. Then you have ltat focus firing on retreating units and it is just stupid. I don't care about loosing vet but when people abuse certain abilities/units just to chase down your retreating units it is just dumb and really gay. You need to make it that retreating units can not be killed no matter what and that would make the game a hell of a lot funner to play. Right now the past 8 games i've played have been nothing but griefing and its really turning me off from the mod. I can't imagine new players wanting to stay if all there stuff is going to get raped while retreating. I don't really have a problem with other units just the pe armored car and ltat that are the main thing used for griefing.

[winisez]

Isnt the mass sniping on like a 5min cooldown with a 20second duration? Meaning that lhat's can only do that for 6% of their existence?

I agree with the retreating killing though, Ive noticed shermans seem really good at this too, its fucking upsetting. Lets just make all retreating units invulnerable. This makes tanks much harder to vet than troops so we need a similar function for tanks.

[Jazzhead]

Brits also have the ability to grief by using the recon sniper shot on retreating 1 man squads

[CrazyWR]

How about people stop theorycrafting on how they keep getting outplayed and begin outplaying the Light Vehicle users themselves? .

Stags and T17s could be somewhat underpriced(by 10-20 FU) - but they're not the godlike pwn-all rape machines people are trying to make them out to be.

this

[Jodomar]

ya that is true but that recon squad can't warp speed past a whole army just to kill your vet.

[Tymathee]

yeah, the mass vet griefing is just annoying lately lol. But heres one thing i've noticed with some of these pe companies, they're terrible at assault and are purely made to be defensive. If u can get enough territory, u can wait them out.

50mm and LAT's are best used on defense

[lionel23]

Yeah very true Tym, I've noticed it a lot the past few days with the mass PE griefing. And yeah you could wait them out since its like ATGs, not exactly an 'offensive' weapon since its really a stand-offish kind of weapon.

Thing is with mass HTs armies, they have incredible speed to get where they need to go while footslogger armies and medium tanks (ie not TDs) have to travel, so in terms of mobility, PE is king in getting someplace first, the fastest.

[Mysthalin]

@Jodo

1. New players hardly have any true veterancy worth keeping or crying about to be thrown off by being vethunted.

2. In the case of new players having veterancy, they do not fight teams such as smokaz/elitegren, or others that have the strategic insight to create anti-vet companies. Even if they did fight the people using that kind of company - these people would opt for other companies entirely because vet-grief companies don't have vet of their own - and gaining vet off newbies on a "real" company is just a lot easier.

3. In the case of a new player with veterancy somehow fighting any player that does make a vet-hunt coy, most of these old players have the basic logic capabilities not to annoy newbies - as they may grow up to be good members of the community in the long term.

4. If we made retreating units unkillable.. What do you think would prevent players who risk their unit's lives all the time, generally letting vet die in gruesome ways from retreating at the very last second to eventually form retarded pure vet 3 armies? Veterancy has the main drawback of being scary to lose - with a failsafe retreat button that makes you unkillable.. You'd be giving a massive boost to vet.

[Jodomar]

well then they should lower the acc for pe armored cars/ltht focus fire vs retreaing units and puma. That way you can still lose vet if you keep it in there to long but can't really be hunted down across the whole map. That is the issue i present which is being hunted down by fast armored cars or super accurate focus fire gayness. I don't take an issue with loosing vet by keeping them in the fight to long but i do have a problem with armored cars chasing them down, along with focus firing on retreating squads. I want that to stop because it just really isn't any fun. I don't get mad when i loose vet to the homosexual tendencies of some players but i does make the game totally unfun to play. Thats what i'm here for fun after all, and when that gets taken away why even play.

[Computer991]

This thread....

[tank130]

If we're going to complain about the T17, then something needs to be looked at the ridiculous stuff PE can do with griefing companies, which I have fought Smokaz and EliteGren's crap in regards to that.

Mass LIGHT AT HTs backed up by 50mms, shooting retreating squads and using a single inf HT to pin all your men (by running up to you), the 50mms blow away tanks and ATGs with their high rate of fire, excellent mobility (no setup time, really?) and the Light ATs can stop any infantry or tank rush due to their mass sniping.  My last game the axis had no infantry on the field for 5-6 minutes and it was just pure griefing from nothing but pure HTs.  They need a price OR pool increase to stop low level companies from deliberately doing that.

Lionel, you have a large amount of vetted units. How you get all that vet honestly is questionable at best. However, I can only assume that you follow honorable play and there is not a possible bug creating vet at a faster rate than is intended.
That being said; you run around with a massive blob of vetted units steamrolling the axis. This is very frustrating to play against as well.
It doesn't take a genius to realize that eventually members are going to get frustrated with your army and do what they can to take it out. I personally have taken it upon myself to vet hunt the living shit out of these massive vet armies. Whether it be yours or somebody else. I really don't give a shit if I win or loose, just destroy the massive vetted army.
So here's some advice. If your vet is soooo precious, leave it off the field.

In regards to balance changes. Changing the behavior and or cost of a unit because it is used to vet hunt would be about the stupidest thing this mod could do. To even make that request makes me question the abilities of the player requesting it.

Have a nice day 

[LeoPhone]

Back to light vehicle problem:

T17 and Stag

these units are light vehicles. light vehicles are used for recon, flanking support weapons and killing unsupported infantry without AT.
t17 and stag do this. however...

they also kill PE vehicles in two shots.
this is because the t17 and stag have a x4 penetration mutliplier vs all PE vehicles
the devs will probably fix this.

but then they still rape wehrmacht.
why do they do that?

1: because after they have furfilled their purpose of recon, flanking support weapons and killing unsupported infantry without AT, they simply continue with killing their counter. the reason for why they do this, is very very simple: their health is too high.

light vehicles are not tanks. light vehicles are cheap and simply do one job. if they encounter a problem, they die. thats how it works.
you can use tanks are used for fighting real AT.

tetrach has 300 hp
stuart has 300 hp
quad has 315 hp
m8 with skirts has 300 hp
puma has 310 hp

staghound has 450!! hp
t17 has 350 hp (with sandbags)

the health of the stag is obviously just a retarded tales of valor stunt and needs to be fixed.
compare it to the ostwind: both AI, both ok vs light vehicles too, only the stag has 50 hp more than the ost, but costs 125 fuel less and is uber fast.

t17 is a bit less bad since it needs to pay munitions to become useful (like the m8), is a doctrine vehicle, and cant do dmg to tanks and marders.
it can- hower destroy all PE vehicles and support weapons, but i hope the 4x penetration will be fixed soon.

ofcourse you can higher the pool value, or increase their price, but the unit itself still stays one retarded thing with no comparison.
you can't call that a fix, thats more like hiding the problem. lower stag hp plz, and fix their penetration multiplier.

and now i'm all in it, it wouldnt be bad to lower roo health too a bit, and higher ostwind health. but thats another subject.