[CW] Stuart vs Staghound

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[LeoPhone]

i have noticed the stuart is not being used really much.
the staghound however, is being used a lot.

so i've checked stuart stats vs stag stats..
(cw_m6_37mm_staghound_gun.rgd & cw_m6_37mm_stuart_gun.rgd)

speed, acc and dec is the same.
both do 65 dmg
same accuracy
same range
about same reload
same scatter

stuart has 0.7 moving accuracy while stag has 0.5 moving accuracy
stuart's accuracy vs inf is 0.65, staghounds accuracy vs inf is 0.5

penetration of stag:
long 0.66
medium 0.83
short 1

penetration of stuart:
0.8
0.9
1

both guns have like a x4 penetration vs halftracks, so u can say peneration is only different vs tanks.
marder:
stag has x1.27 pen. vs marder, which will  result in almost always penerating it.
stuart has x5 pen. vs marder, so always penertate.
conclusion: almost no difference

only difference for stugs p4s, ostwinds and panthers is that stag has x0.94 accuracy vs them while stuart has x1.
stuart has 0.04 more peneration vs panther than stag. (nothing)
 
conclusion: target_tables of both guns are near the same, so only difference is the basic peneration you see here above.

not quite a big difference if you realize that the stag has 150 more HP + a top mg.
they both have stuart armour type, so their received accuracy etc. is the same.

example:
stuart has 0.33592 chanse to penerate p4. (long range)
stag has 0.277 chanse to penertate p4. (long range)

price:
stuart = 280mp and 70 fuel
stag = 340 mp and 90 fuel
repair kit for stag is 5 more ammo
stuart get's  tank commander for extra sight
stag gets top mg

I like the new role given to the stuart, but it's stats are not changed enough.
buying a staghound gives you the same as a stuart + AI + more health.

I suggest:
lower peneration of staghound gun(also vs halftrack and marder)
higher peneration of stuart gun(give it a chanse to penerate p4s or stugs, but not as good as tetrach)
lower dmg of staghound main gun vs vehicles.
lower health of staghound to match other light vehicles.
lower price of staghound to match other light vehicles.
give RCA doctrine the ability to buy stuart canister shot.

[Tymathee]

Stuarts are awesome but people still try to use them as infantry killers when they excel in taking out vehicles and tanks. I've taken out a panther (full health) with 3 of them before, i regularly took out p4's with 2 stuarts, I can take out stugs and stuh's with just one, they're awesome vs pumas until upgun, they used to really beat up pe vehicles, they're not as great but they're still pretty awesome. the stuart gun also has a higher rof than the stag gun and with the tank cmdr upgrade, it has further sight, and with the lower health it can get bake into a fighter faster after repair.

I have to say the main issue with stuarts is their health but other than that, they're just fine.

[LeoPhone]

i checked 50mm puma stats, since the idea was to make stuart like this vehicle.

puma has 0.32 peneration vs sherman, so it seems to be same in that area.
however, puma can still fight m10s, and there is no alternative to puma for axis.
but if u try to fight an ostwind with stuart, you'll lose in no time.

the 2 basic problems are:
1:
staghound is too good vs vehicles. there is no need in getting stuart.
there should be a big difference between stag killing PE vehicles and stuart killing PE vehicles
2:
stuart and puma are supposed to be hard counters to light vehicles while being able to do okayish dmg vs tanks and inf.
those last two things seems to be ok... i only do think their peneration can be a bit higher.
also every enemy light vehicles they face can fight back good. if you set up your AT  gun, you know that tanks will stay away. with puma or stuart this is not the case.
puma's moving accuracy could also be increased to .7 to match stuart.

Stuarts are awesome but people still try to use them as infantry killers when they excel in taking out vehicles and tanks. I've taken out a panther (full health) with 3 of them before, i regularly took out p4's with 2 stuarts, I can take out stugs and stuh's with just one, they're awesome vs pumas until upgun, they used to really beat up pe vehicles, they're not as great but they're still pretty awesome. the stuart gun also has a higher rof than the stag gun and with the tank cmdr upgrade, it has further sight, and with the lower health it can get bake into a fighter faster after repair.

I have to say the main issue with stuarts is their health but other than that, they're just fine.

i see now the only difference in reload is that stag has 3 wind down while stuart has 0.
this would mean that stuart reloads about 50% faster.

so yeah, stuart is okay vs vehicles. but with the staghound you can do pretty much the same.

[Smokaz]

ostwind should just a be a tiny bit less good against stuart

[Tymathee]

uh, dont mirror puma and stuart dude, they're fine just as is. why does everyone want mirror units? stuart is supposed to be a fire on the move weapon, just look at the two turrents on them, which do you think would be easier to fire on the move lol. but seriously, the stuarts a bit better vs infantry while the upgun puma has more soft targets to take on but the stuart is great vs light vehicles, two of them can wreck havoc vs pe. when i used to play vs pe i would bring out a stag and stuart and just wreck havoc on pe formations if they got too tough to break thru

They server similar roles but aren't supposed to be the same type of unit. Heck, i see more stags than i see upguns mainly cuz axis have better anti tank options than the allies do and the stuarts superior speed makes it better vs axis vehicles than an upgun does vs allied vehicles.


Mod Edit:  Stay on topic

[LeoPhone]

anyway, pumas speed is 0.5 higher than stuart's speed. acceleration is 0.5 higher and deceleration 0.5 lower.
and you based your argument this time on "how big the gun looks"


Mod Edit: No need to swing around the rules, we will enforce the rules, don't you worry about that.

[Mysthalin]

Leo - Stuart has M8 armour, making it like 20 thousand times harder to hit ;p.

[LeoPhone]

Leo - Stuart has M8 armour, making it like 20 thousand times harder to hit ;p.

RGDs say type_target weapon is tp_armour_cw_stuart for both stag and stuart.
so if they've changed stuart to m8 armour, they did the same with stag.

[bbsmith]

Look harder. It clearly says type_target_weapon\tp_vehicle_allies_m8_greyhound.lua

[Spartan_Marine88]

All i will say is that on my Commando company i can't afford the munitions of the topgun of the staghound (what really makes it better than a stuart) while a suart is cheap so that i can easily get it to support my inf

[LeoPhone]

Look harder. It clearly says type_target_weapon\tp_vehicle_allies_m8_greyhound.lua

[LeoPhone]

i did find out that tetrach got the m8 stats.

did u fuck it up? 

[gamesguy2]

Again, you're not looking in the right place.

And tetrarch has always had M8 armor.

[Mysthalin]

No, you're looking at the wrong stuart entity, leo.

[bbsmith]

Your looking in the wrong place.

[LeoPhone]

wow...

didnt expect to double all RGDs if u got ur own module anyway  :S

thx