[PE] SE P4 ist with incendiary warheads and mobile platforms

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[HansVonLuk]

This has to be arguably the greatest pop 10 unit in the game.  Rapes inf and light vehicles, and burns atgs.  I tried to think a 10 pop equivalent, but there just isnt one.  Now the normal ist, is 10 pop which is fine.  Im not saving nerf the abilities but what I am saying is increase its pop if it has these abilities.  As it stand as brits I dont think they is a 10 pop out there that can counter this baby, that tell you that there is some thing wrong.  Maybe 2 atgs but, incendiary the first circle strafe the other. Now for 12 pop it could be done, I wont like to see just the SE P4 IST increase in pop with these abilities.  Maybe make is a septate unit that have these abilities.  If you think that pop 10 is ok, then lower the pop of the Cromwell to 10.

[deadbolt]

m10 is 10 pop

[HansVonLuk]

m10 is 10 pop

Fair one but I was thinking from a brit point of view. Cromwell to pop 10?

[LeoPhone]

Fair one but I was thinking from a brit point of view. Cromwell to pop 10?

lol no.

and 1 atg already kills the ist if u just scout for it or use OP button.

[HansVonLuk]

Fair one but I was thinking from a brit point of view. Cromwell to pop 10?

lol no.

and 1 atg already kills the ist if u just scout for it or use OP button.

Lol NO, ist can still fire incendiary whilst buttoned and therefore wins

[NightRain]

Fair one but I was thinking from a brit point of view. Cromwell to pop 10?

lol no.

and 1 atg already kills the ist if u just scout for it or use OP button.

Lol NO, ist can still fire incendiary whilst buttoned and therefore wins

I know for a fact that IST has 35 range. When do you button this said unit? WHen it parks in front of ATG? You can button it before it can even reach ATG tbh

l2p is all I can say to this.

[HansVonLuk]

Fair one but I was thinking from a brit point of view. Cromwell to pop 10?

lol no.

and 1 atg already kills the ist if u just scout for it or use OP button.

Lol NO, ist can still fire incendiary whilst buttoned and therefore wins

I know for a fact that IST has 35 range. When do you button this said unit? WHen it parks in front of ATG? You can button it before it can even reach ATG tbh

l2p is all I can say to this.

WTF is l2p?

[Uglysori]

There is a chance that an IST solo with both tier 3s can beat 2 atgs but for the most part it should never be done because it's not worth the risk on the part of the PE player.  It is reliant on whether or not inc shell hits (it can miss by a wide margin), how well spaced the atgs are, and whether or not the supporting infantry has button.  Of course the IST can win taking into acct what support it has but really sacrificing such an expense unit (fuel wise) isn't worth the cost of two ATGs.   If I only lost two recrewable atgs for an IST, I'd consider that a victory.  For light vehicles remember that the IST only has 35 range, the tank is very kiteable or you can just avoid it.  Cromwell's frontal pen is not great against the IST but again the IST is kiteable, can't pen cromwell's frontal glacial, the cruiser tank has a speed adv.  I just think lowering the pop on one of those things would cause more balance issues than solve them.  That being said, the one ATG with no other AT start is not going to beat my core (Brens plus 1 ATG is unlikely to defeat me).  I mean I am PE anyway why aren't you bringing more AT to begin with. I hardly have infantry.

[HansVonLuk]

There is a chance that an IST solo with both tier 3s can beat 2 atgs but for the most part it should never be done because it's not worth the risk on the part of the PE player.  It is reliant on whether or not inc shell hits (it can miss by a wide margin), how well spaced the atgs are, and whether or not the supporting infantry has button.  Of course the IST can win taking into acct what support it has but really sacrificing such an expense unit (fuel wise) isn't worth the cost of two ATGs.   If I only lost two recrewable atgs for an IST, I'd consider that a victory.  For light vehicles remember that the IST only has 35 range, the tank is very kiteable or you can just avoid it.  Cromwell's frontal pen is not great against the IST but again the IST is kiteable, can't pen cromwell's frontal glacial, the cruiser tank has a speed adv.  I just think lowering the pop on one of those things would cause more balance issues than solve them.  

Ok fair piont, but like I said the plain IST at pop 10 is fine, but with those upgrade it becomes uber and it is still pop 10.  

[Smokaz]

There might be a issue with this, the points outlined here are not very convincing. Generally i'd say the IST is a vulnerable unit,  a lot of games I see IST's go down without doing much so nerfing it is kinda meh in my eyes

[HansVonLuk]

There might be a issue with this, the points outlined here are not very convincing. Generally i'd say the IST is a vulnerable unit,  a lot of games I see IST's go down without doing much so nerfing it is kinda meh in my eyes

IST rushes in frontal attack, 6 pounder fires, brit player select bren Tommies button IST, IST can no longer fire. IST fire incenieary round even thought it should be able to because of button, 3 sec later 6 pounder dies.  Button wears off Tommies die.

[Draken]

I would discuss about sacrifising unupgraded ist on 2 atgs,

this unit with doctrine abilities is very strong, and the low pop allows you to bring lot of support units around it, I have no idea how the change it, but combined with 50mm spam it's lame.

[Smokaz]

Thats the perfect solution for the IST yes. But what if the Tommies are shielding the 6p properly, and the at gun is using it's range? It might be easier for it to split and run off, but its not gonna kill the at gun.

Also the ROLE of the ist is to deal with infantry + soft targets. Like the definition or not, the at gun is a infantry based AT weapon and a soft target. If you can you should be engaging the IST with a vehicle/armor type of unit.

[HansVonLuk]

I would discuss about sacrifising unupgraded ist on 2 atgs,

this unit with doctrine abilities is very strong, and the low pop allows you to bring lot of support units around it, I have no idea how the change it, but combined with 50mm spam it's lame.

I total agree, but I was just talking about this unit individual, but when you combine this with 3 50 ATHT that a really hard call in to beat.  3 atgs/6pd minimum i guess but that would be almost allot of some one ATG/6pd support just to could this.

[Uglysori]

So in this scenario what I have seen beat the IST is this:

Either you button the IST out of range of the inc shot on the ATG (35+ range)

or You button and immediately back up the ATG outside the range of the IST

or you have a second ATG backing up the first which = dead IST

or the IST simply misses its inc shot.

However you are right I normally do win in this scenario because players sometimes fail to do the top 3 things or I have good luck.

[HansVonLuk]

Thats the perfect solution for the IST yes. But what if the Tommies are shielding the 6p properly, and the at gun is using it's range? It might be easier for it to split and run off, but its not gonna kill the at gun.

Also the ROLE of the ist is to deal with infantry + soft targets. Like the definition or not, the at gun is a infantry based AT weapon and a soft target. If you can you should be engaging the IST with a vehicle/armor type of unit.

Inf support tank, should be change to 50ATHT Support tank.

[Smokaz]

fire rounds is a gay little ability when it rapes you but its not very different to some guy strafing your shrek squads when your croc is at 25% hp and he has no other at

if you think the 50mm is a problem there's plenty of reason to suspect that it is, but i dont think the ist is to blame it has a lot of problems

[HansVonLuk]

fire rounds is a gay little ability when it rapes you but its not very different to some guy strafing your shrek squads when your croc is at 25% hp and he has no other at

if you think the 50mm is a problem there's plenty of reason to suspect that it is, but i dont think the ist is to blame it has a lot of problems

I believe that the low pop makes it so effect, like I said for 10 pop in can rape an ATG/6pd, inf and light vehicle not many other units if any can do this in this game.

[Uglysori]

Oh i also forgot one of the more creative and pop cheap (not muni cheap) ways to help take down an IST.  FOO on buttoned ISTs = lol, and it's surprisingly effective.

[nugnugx]

IST was supposed to be buffed ,,,, it hasn't been so far , and now a nerf thread?

oh the nerve

playing on both sides should be mandatory before a player can make a "nerf" thread.