King Tiger

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[gamesguy2]

Computer - without a pak to support it - that KT might as well just go kill itself. It's turret won't ever catch up with the M10's circling speed. And even if it does - you're not doing much with Armor M10s requiring 4 shots to get killed. They WILL get your KT.

Armor M10 does not take 4 shots to kill, still only 3 shots.

And unless the map consists of a featureless desert, you can easilly kill two M10s with a KT.   I've done it a couple of times, you just need to back up against a forest or a building or the map edge.

[Mysthalin]

That is only if the M10s aren't vet 1, gamesguy. I hold anybody who doesn't have at least vet 1 with Armor Plating M10s to be doing something completely wrong, though - and thus assume they do indeed have the vet 1 which will alow for 4 shots to be taken.

A forest or building MAY help you somewhat, but taking into account the M10s significantly better speed I believe any decent M10 user will head off the KT in time. The Map Edge? Now, you start with a KT and you don't even go for the centre of the map where it has access to roads and can actually DO something, but stick nearby a map edge? I find that to be.. unrealistic, to say the least.

[Demon767]

noobs. dont you know that you can rotate your KT body so your turret can catch up to the m10s

[Uunderfire]

Computer - without a pak to support it - that KT might as well just go kill itself. It's turret won't ever catch up with the M10's circling speed. And even if it does - you're not doing much with Armor M10s requiring 4 shots to get killed. They WILL get your KT.

Armor M10 does not take 4 shots to kill, still only 3 shots.

And unless the map consists of a featureless desert, you can easilly kill two M10s with a KT.   I've done it a couple of times, you just need to back up against a forest or a building or the map edge.

Now I know why LeoPhone has made a desert map 

[gamesguy2]

That is only if the M10s aren't vet 1, gamesguy. I hold anybody who doesn't have at least vet 1 with Armor Plating M10s to be doing something completely wrong, though - and thus assume they do indeed have the vet 1 which will alow for 4 shots to be taken.

That's funny, considering your armor company has zero vet 1 or higher M10s.

A forest or building MAY help you somewhat, but taking into account the M10s significantly better speed I believe any decent M10 user will head off the KT in time. The Map Edge? Now, you start with a KT and you don't even go for the centre of the map where it has access to roads and can actually DO something, but stick nearby a map edge? I find that to be.. unrealistic, to say the least.

M10's speed advantage only holds on roads and flat featureless deserts.  Throw in any sort of obstacle like your typical EIR map and that advantages goes away.  I've never had a problem killing circling M10s with a KT.

In 2v2s KTs often fight near map edges, in addition, I have no idea why you put KTs on roads.  I absolutely stay away from roads with a KT.  Since roads offer it no speed bonus and can only help your enemies.  

[Mysthalin]

noobs. dont you know that you can rotate your KT body so your turret can catch up to the m10s

That's the number one thing I look for whenever I'm using M10s or Tetrarchs. If the enemy begins turning to counteract you being faster than the turret - you quickly stop and begin going the other way. If the owner of the KT doesn't notice it and over-takes your tank with his gun, the gun will get stuck for a while as it tries to catch up with you again .

It's somewhat micro-intensive to pull this trick off, and requires some skill in the enemy as well as you - but it reaps huge benefits.

That's funny, considering your armor company has zero or higher vet 1 M10s.

That's funny considering I sold all of them(including my, at the time, 5 vet 3s) to buy crocodiles instead?

M10's speed advantage only holds on roads and flat featureless deserts.  Throw in any sort of obstacle like your typical EIR map and that advantages goes away.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the T2 in armour the M10s have 8.16 speed (more speed than a tetrarch). Even without roads you're faster than the 3 speed KT. And you won't really be hindered by heavy cover all that much - considering nobody lays it down in fields, but in strips of it.

In 2v2s you still fight in the middle of the map - claim what you will, it's the place where the majority of the engagements take place - don't believe me, check any 2v2 replay with the CoH Replay Analyzer's map coordinate order tool - most are given around the epicentre of the map, not the edges. And the middle is usually about 90 CoH metres away from either edge of the map - half a minute of movement for the KT to get to there.

[Demon767]

hmm thats quite interesting theory. never seen it happen though. what do you mean by not noticing him stoping, do you mean by the KT player is later when telling him to move his KT body back the other way?

[gamesguy2]

That's funny considering I sold all of them(including my, at the time, 5 vet 3s) to buy crocodiles instead?

There are approximately 900 M10s in the game, and only 50 are vet 1 or higher.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the T2 in armour the M10s have 8.16 speed (more speed than a tetrarch). Even without roads you're faster than the 3 speed KT. And you won't really be hindered by heavy cover all that much - considering nobody lays it down in fields, but in strips of it.

Stop it with the selective quoting.  It has nothing to do with absolute speed and everything to do with whether I can keep up with the M10 with the KT turret.

In 2v2s you still fight in the middle of the map - claim what you will, it's the place where the majority of the engagements take place - don't believe me, check any 2v2 replay with the CoH Replay Analyzer's map coordinate order tool - most are given around the epicentre of the map, not the edges. And the middle is usually about 90 CoH metres away from either edge of the map - half a minute of movement for the KT to get to there.

That's nice, except I still have forests, hedges, and buildings to block against.

I see you backed away from your argument about roads being good for KTs.

[gamesguy2]

hmm thats quite interesting theory. never seen it happen though. what do you mean by not noticing him stoping, do you mean by the KT player is later when telling him to move his KT body back the other way?

That only works if your opponent isn't paying attention.

[Mysthalin]

I mean that the KT player doesn't react INSTANTLY in changing the way he's rotating as soon as he sees me stop the M10. Honestly - it's harder to react to that than it may seem at first glance - mostly due to the fact there's nothing stopping me from starting to move in the SAME direction as I was if the KT user decides to instantly rotate the other way - resulting in the exact same(thusly, positive to me) outcome.

There are approximately 900 M10s in the game, and only 50 are vet 1 or higher.

Out of these 900 M10s - how many have the T3 Armor Plating? If they don't - having vet 1 is absolutely irrelevant.
Also - how come does the number of vet 1 or above M10s stand EXACTLY and ever so conveniently at 50? Considering that 50 is the maximum ammount of units the leaderboard can show, and the last of these M10s has 18 experience(with 12 being required for vet 1) - I think you're mistaken.

Stop it with the selective quoting.  It has nothing to do with absolute speed and everything to do with whether I can keep up with the M10 with the KT turret.

Wait, how exactly does heavy or light cover help the KT's turret keep up with the M10 in any way other than by reducing the absolute speed of the M10 for a very short duration? Or has the M10 lost it's ability to crush walls in the last 5 second that I didn't check?

Most of the trees that the M10 can't crush also can't be crushed by the KT either. Their crushability is map-dependant, and most mappers set their treas to standard tank crush, rather than heavy(or even super-heavy) tank crush.

Hedges? Oh, go back up against one as it disintegrates on you. And if it doesn't - I'll enjoy the bit of cover that stops your turret from tracking the M10 for a second or two. Cover works both ways you know. If you back up against a building - you may have somewhat better chance indeed, or I might attack you from either side with the M10s at once - depending on how lazy I am.

I see you backed away from your argument about roads being good for KTs.

Well, KTs only find use in roads against infantry - and they gain lesser bonuses from the road than the M10 does, so you might have a point of leaving the road as soon as you can. Though I doubt you take the route through the fields and haystacks, rather than the one with the nice asphalt when you're getting to the front line.

[deadbolt]

i got rushed by 11 m10s the other game and only just lost my kt, they had like 1 m10 left with like 10hp, u guise need to l2micro.

[NightRain]

Replay or it didn't happen and you are just fantasing a wet dream

[deadbolt]

ask snoop, we was vs some guys on neuville

[DarkSoldierX]

Not possible. My vet 3 jagd back in the day just BARLEY survived a 6 M10 rush and thats because I moved him back to 4 shreks. If 1 of those shots that bounced didnt bounce, the jagd would be dead, if one of those hit a engine crit, the jagd would be dead.

[SnoOp]

ask snoop, we was vs some guys on neuville

Ya it was 11 m10s, was wtfgetpwnt.

[CrazyWR]

how many paks/shreks you guys have around it?

[SnoOp]

how many paks/shreks you guys have around it?

1 pak and it was some guy who wasnt using it correctly...got like 3 shots off.

[wildsolus]

how many paks/shreks you guys have around it?

1 pak and it was some guy who wasnt using it correctly...got like 3 shots off.

if ya watch the replay, your tiger and his KT woulda died if it wasn't for me

[deadbolt]

my kt died DUE to you, naab.

[wildsolus]

your KT died because you refused to retreat it to repair. just because you killed 7 m10's before that doesn't mean it's gonna be alright. anyone with a brain woulda brought it back after it hit like the 15% hp