[PE] Luft. Ostfront Veterans

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[DarkSoldierX]

This T1 buffs normal panzergrens which is quite weird that it is in the fallschrimjager tree... Which is useless because you unlock falls and Luftwaffe ground forces.

I suggest changing it to giving +3.5 Detection to both Falls and Luftwaffe ground forces, with the edition of -5 seconds of faust usage timer on falls and -15 seconds of the slow recharge for falls with G43, or -10 seconds of cover fire if they have that Planned Offensive T4.

This T1 also breaks sinergy with its own T2, which buffs captured weapons.

Luftwaffe Ground forces are much better at recrewing then Panzer Grenadiers, but this T1 buffs panzer grenadiers, encouraging their use.

[CommanderHolt]

I don't understand what you mean by the T2 Weapons Training? I'm pretty sure it will go into effect no matter what unit recrews.

[DarkSoldierX]

Panzergrenadiers = 4 Men. Luftwaffe = 5 men and their cheaper manpower.

[CommanderHolt]

The T2 affects all of your infantry units, whether they are Luftwaffe or Fallschrimjagers. It doesn't really ruin synergy as far as I can tell.

[Hydro]

The T2 affects all of your infantry units, whether they are Luftwaffe or Fallschrimjagers. It doesn't really ruin synergy as far as I can tell.

He means that, if you have luft and pgrens, that without upgrade are not better than luft. It is stupid to buy 210 mp +25 mp for vet seregant , when you can buy 180mp infantry, that actually can recrew 2 weapons and build basic defenses

[CommanderHolt]

The T2 affects all of your infantry units, whether they are Luftwaffe or Fallschrimjagers. It doesn't really ruin synergy as far as I can tell.

He means that, if you have luft and pgrens, that without upgrade are not better than luft. It is stupid to buy 210 mp +25 mp for vet seregant , when you can buy 180mp infantry, that actually can recrew 2 weapons and build basic defenses

So? Then you don't buy them then. I think of it really just encouraging the use as a Sniper killer (used with an Infantry HT of course). The bonuses are pretty minor so I don't see why people would suddenly go for Panzer Grens with this unlock.

[Hydro]

So I don't see any reason why people should suddenly go for it. And how much time did you saw sniper without any other units like mg, at or even rifle? Pgrens as sniper killer is stupid idea

[DarkSoldierX]

You dont understand. Imagine airborne had a selection that buffed only normal riflemen, not their doctrine unlocks. This is the LUFTWAFFE DOCTRINE. Not the PANZER GRENADIER doctrine. Understand? That means buff units that you CHOSE THE DOCTRINE FOR.

[CommanderHolt]

That is because Airborne only have Airborne and their variants. Luftwaffe deals not only with just Fallschrimjager.

[DarkSoldierX]

And we have fallschrimjager and its varient. Luftwaffe is to support the fallschrims by building defences and recrew. The only wayy a panzergrandier is going to help is by puting slow on enemy infantry. Thats it

[EliteGren]

You guys don't seem to understand the point of the doctrine rework.

The doctrine is not supposed to suffer from a lack of direction and over focus on a few units. Buffing a wide range of units will promote players using a more wide range of units rather than focusing on the 3-4 units the doctrine gives you.

The problem is the Airborne doctrine giving too many buffs to AB, Luftwaffe is fine.

[CrazyWR]

I agree, the luftwaffe doctrine has potential, but there seems to be a definite lack of polish.  Random buffs with no real plan, no synergy from one tier to the next, and no way to even consider dual t3s like most other doctrines have.  Also, the t3 unlocks are very meh, excepting maybe the AT option with the 88 and FJ tb's.  Henschel used to be sweet, now its garbage, and medkits...meh.

Specifically, the bottom t4, while containing a lot of buffs, just seems extremely haphazard and slapped together to me, like people couldn't think of anything, and just decided to throw a buncha random buffs together.  Included in this t4 is a p4ist lockdown buff.  In the Middle t3, there is also a p4ist buff, where lockdown cloaking is possible, but you can't have both this buff AND the t4 buff?  Why?  And the p4 cloaking is only possible in the fortress Europe tree, where its almost certain wirbles will be used instead, and either way, the role is duplicated.  Buffing both units in the same tree there is a giant waste.  PE doesn't have fuel to waste on units that do the same role.

Also, the  AB t3 is >>> FJ operations t3 in the top row of luft.  AB drop in 10s, falls take 15s at best, and they get the deploy faster choice as a t1, not a t3.

Also, the t2 fast response seems silly.  Buffing overdrive AND buffing speed in friendly territory, but only as mutually exclusive buffs is kind of silly.  Seems like it would be better just granting the bonuses in all territory and removing the overdrive buff.  That might be OP, but I'm sure the % could be tweaked downward if necessary.  Also, its still pretty irrelevant to luftwaffe itself.

The bottom t3 which gives you a healing crate...it seems to me that if you get that, there is no point in getting the medkits t3 unlock on the bottom, which yet again is a duplication of buffs.  Removing that healing from the equation leaves you with a very mediocre t3, and including it leaves you with a totally pointless t3 unlock on the bottom.  T3 unlocks are supposed to be sweet, and tbh, luft t3 unlocks leave a lot to be desired.  The medkits one is just pointless, the henschel got nerfed to hell, and the AT options, while good, certainly don't make up for the weakness of the other 2 options.  

Thats all I've got...but I just feel like Luft could be much more polished...

[DarkSoldierX]

If the doctrine rework is supposed to buff a wide range of units then.

Every other doctrine other than Luftwaffe is off target and needs a another rework.

[EliteGren]

ALL doctrines are being reworked, Luftwaffe being one of the first ones to receive these changes simply because it has just been released.

[DarkSoldierX]

I thought you were talking about the rework right after we were in testing and everyone had level 8 accounts with hunter killer jagdpanthers or jagdpanther with 10+ range. I never knew we were doing another wework, this really is going to make all doctrines funky and retarded.

[AmPM]

So the plan is to add buffs to doctrines that don't help it achieve any sort of direction or identity? Sweet. When can I expect infantry buffs in my armor doctrine even though the doctrine is based around Armor? =)

[smurfORnot]

vanilla luft ground forces cant do shitt...only thing they are good for is recrew...even rifles kill em easly...

[EliteGren]

When can I expect infantry buffs in my armor doctrine even though the doctrine is based around Armor? =)

When you stop being such an ungrateful git. The doctrines are constantly being changed and rebalanced, they are subject to change whenever we feel it is needed. Current doctrines are in no way final.

[DarkSoldierX]

In all, all doctrines will and shall suck. Oh well we will see less uberbuffed m10's though.

[CrazyWR]

You guys don't seem to understand the point of the doctrine rework.

The doctrine is not supposed to suffer from a lack of direction and over focus on a few units. Buffing a wide range of units will promote players using a more wide range of units rather than focusing on the 3-4 units the doctrine gives you.

I  very much disagree with this approach.  Doctrines should be focused, rather than completely arbitrary...