[PE] Luft. Ostfront Veterans

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[AmPM]

Ungrateful about what Elite? Some of them are just poorly done doctrines or have obviously useless crap unlocks you are forced to take to get something useful.

Hell, the tree's aren't even consistent in half of them. I still love the mod, but if I just went around going "Oh yes, that's fantastic" just to make people feel better then I wouldn't be helping at all. If everyone did that we'd have a pretty shit mod.

The reason doctrines are fun is BECAUSE they focus your company. Otherwise me might as well remove all doctrines, make special units unlocks, add more unlock points and use one generic doctrine list for both sides.

[EliteGren]

I'm just gonna throw out this Luft draft that I made months ago. I thought it was good, but it was overbuffing the units so it didn't go in and was heavily modified.

[AmPM]

Why not just reduce the percentages? That actually looks fun to play and very themed...

[Jazzhead]

Yeah i fail to see why that draft wasn't finalized. It is way more "luftwaffe" than the current version

[DarkSoldierX]

I would go Ambush T3 and Superioir planing T3.

[Hydro]

I think that instead of bottom tree, there should be buffs that actually improves and gives ability to make small air operations- as in airborne doctrine, but weaker. Airborne players actually can drop their soldiers behind enemy lines and it's fun to kill some repairing stuff and artillery with chance to survive. But in this case I would say that luftwaffe should has two roles: helping in offense by killing weapon crews and other from behind, while the spearhead is assaulting on enemy defense lines, then if you have chosen other path, you can defend, what your mates just captured with 88's, whiberls and other support units.

Second role is done perfectly, but first not, that is my point of view about luftwaffe

[Jazzhead]

Just curious why elitegren's comment was deleted...or was that voluntary?
 

[EliteGren]

We need to get back ontopic.

[CrazyWR]

Why not just reduce the percentages? That actually looks fun to play and very themed...

yea, thats the version I saw, it looked pretty sweet...and its focused.  I don't know what the hell happened to go from that to this, but IMO it was a huge downgrade.

[pqumsieh]

you guys actually feêl that the curretn doctrine isnt good? remember that we dont want to overbuff one unit (as someone mentioned m10 in armor doc) to the point where its game breaking. if you dont se e yourself fielding any pg's then thats fine, but realize not everyone will run pure falls/luft. falls are rather po ol heavy so you will be forced to place some normal infantry in there as well. and withsome of the doctgrine buffs, getting normal pgs is quite alright.

to sum up, why dont you play with the doctrine a bit before you cry. i think you'll find that if anything, this doctrine has so many differing buffs that it actually has more throughput than other doctrines in that it allows you to work with counters better. for example, having your airborne buffed only is nice, but it creates an inflexibility that go od players will take advantage of.

PQ

[Jodomar]

I feel that what Elitegren originaly came up with, is more along the lines of what I expected to see. Not this weird doctrine that we have now. It does really feel like it's all over the place. There is no real buffs for falls besides the top and bottum t4's.  The flack 88 as a tier 3 come on that's retarded.I Think lw ambush should have been in the same tree  as heroes of monte. It's like you get half a buff on a unit but the other half of the buff is in the complete other tree as a t4 or t3. I Think elitegrens version as the luft doc would be awesome, granted some of those abilities would need to be tweaked but there is a definite sense of direction with it. Right now my head is spinning around in circles trying to figure out what the hell i'm going to do with my luft company.

[CrazyWR]

you guys actually feêl that the curretn doctrine isnt good? remember that we dont want to overbuff one unit (as someone mentioned m10 in armor doc) to the point where its game breaking. if you dont se e yourself fielding any pg's then thats fine, but realize not everyone will run pure falls/luft. falls are rather po ol heavy so you will be forced to place some normal infantry in there as well. and withsome of the doctgrine buffs, getting normal pgs is quite alright.

to sum up, why dont you play with the doctrine a bit before you cry. i think you'll find that if anything, this doctrine has so many differing buffs that it actually has more throughput than other doctrines in that it allows you to work with counters better. for example, having your airborne buffed only is nice, but it creates an inflexibility that go od players will take advantage of.

PQ

Sure, not everyone will run falls/luft, but thats not the point.  Yes, there will be plenty of other options ,but if you read my post, you understand that the current luft doctrine is broken in that it buffs units fucking randomly and without any coordination.  If you want that, be my guest, but most luft players aren't interested in  that...shit needs fixed, and thats all there is to it.

[Demon767]

i wish there was an update without any qq

not directed at anyone im just saying

[pqumsieh]

@ crazy: no i read your post but clearly you did not read mine. I understand where you are coming from, the new doctrine directions/designs from the devs is trying to break up much of the synergy that can also be labeled over stacking buffs.

what i wanted you to take from my post is the reasoning behind this new line of thinking. the game will never be balanced around one or two units recieving a multitude of buffs, it can however work better if the buffs are spread out. This is what this doctrine provides, and I feel like you srsly under estimate the power/synergy still present in this doctrine.

I'm glad they went with this doc over elites. not because elites wasn't good, but because his draft would have caused a similar problem we see in some of the earlier docs like armor co or blitz co. like i said, try it out then provide some detailed advice on how you feel it should be improved. theres no use on making ungrounded assertions.

PQ

[salan2]

It really is two completely different points of view on the base argument.

[gamesguy2]

I feel that what Elitegren originaly came up with, is more along the lines of what I expected to see. Not this weird doctrine that we have now. It does really feel like it's all over the place. There is no real buffs for falls besides the top and bottum t4's.  The flack 88 as a tier 3 come on that's retarded.I Think lw ambush should have been in the same tree  as heroes of monte. It's like you get half a buff on a unit but the other half of the buff is in the complete other tree as a t4 or t3. I Think elitegrens version as the luft doc would be awesome, granted some of those abilities would need to be tweaked but there is a definite sense of direction with it. Right now my head is spinning around in circles trying to figure out what the hell i'm going to do with my luft company.

What's so hard about it?  Top is falls/luft, mid is defense, bot is a generalized PE company.

Flak is t3 because PE flak is much better than the wehr flak.

[salan2]

Flak is t3 because PE flak is much better than the wehr flak.

garison cover vs green cover right?

[DarkSoldierX]

@ crazy: no i read your post but clearly you did not read mine. I understand where you are coming from, the new doctrine directions/designs from the devs is trying to break up much of the synergy that can also be labeled over stacking buffs.

what i wanted you to take from my post is the reasoning behind this new line of thinking. the game will never be balanced around one or two units recieving a multitude of buffs, it can however work better if the buffs are spread out. This is what this doctrine provides, and I feel like you srsly under estimate the power/synergy still present in this doctrine.

I'm glad they went with this doc over elites. not because elites wasn't good, but because his draft would have caused a similar problem we see in some of the earlier docs like armor co or blitz co. like i said, try it out then provide some detailed advice on how you feel it should be improved. theres no use on making ungrounded assertions.

PQ

Undergrouned? Its a fucking unit thats for the other 2 doctrines. Thats why you put the buff on LFG because thats what you use. Not panzergrens. They have no use in your army. And I play luftwaffe almost every day so STFU about the playing part.

[gamesguy2]

Flak is t3 because PE flak is much better than the wehr flak.

garison cover vs green cover right?

And more hp yep.

[Mysthalin]

Though to be fair - PE flak doesn't have access to omni and HE shell barrage, both of which are pure awesome. Not to mention the awesomeness grenade and faust volks bring in the whole "I can haz recrew" line. Say what you will - riflegrenade/G43 Luftwaffe will never live up to the pure awesome that is Mr. Volk.