AmPM
Community Mapper
 Posts: 7978
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« on: July 17, 2010, 01:51:43 pm » |
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Is it just me or is this doctrine seriously underwhelming. No real buffs to your infantry, random buffs to every single unit you can possibly buy, no synergy, all on top of the already messed up PE unit pool costs.
FJ cannot fight the elite infantry of any other doctrine or Tommies for crap, even from ambush, the vehicles you have access to get fewer buffs than say, SE or TB...or any other doctrine.
The BEST buff to any of my infantry is -15% incoming accuracy in cover....at t4....
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« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 01:54:00 pm by AmPM »
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Speigass
banzai
EIR Veteran Posts: 114
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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2010, 01:54:39 pm » |
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Yep doctrine is pretty weak combat wise... but has awesome scouting abilities. When u know where and what type of enemy is... it is easy to kll them no matter the buffs, because you bring hard counters.
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AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2010, 01:58:44 pm » |
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While true, its nothing that can't be done with say, a Vampire HT and your minimap =) Some things in it are nice, but none make it a good doctrine choice. Especially since it can't hold its own vs most targets.
If this is how the doctrine will be I would suggest reducing the pool value on FJ further, since they are hardly elite infantry to maybe 5 pool, and decrease the FG42 price to around 100.
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Speigass
banzai
EIR Veteran Posts: 114
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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2010, 02:42:40 pm » |
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So far I observe that vannila FJ from ambush are much more better than fg ones. I hope you are alll aware that eir FJ use gren rifle, so close to 20 dmg per shoot from ambush, with over 50% accuracy.
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| DarkSoldierX
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2010, 03:01:17 pm » |
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And still end up dieing to ranger rush. Sombody tell me why health buffed Airborne have around the total health of a sherman and our fallschrimjagers just suck...
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two words
atgs and fireflies
Looks who's butthurt |
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AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2010, 03:07:34 pm » |
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Because the devs decided too much synergy is bad, and Luft is the first doctrine to be reworked into their new doctrine image.
As such almost none of our stuff works together directly, we receive buffs to units that are pretty worthless or just dont make any sense, and nothing directly works with our signature units, because god forbid the FJ with FG42 in Ambush actually rapes some infantry.
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« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 04:23:06 pm by AmPM »
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| Grundwaffe
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2010, 03:08:56 pm » |
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our fallschrimjagers just suck...
They are my biggest problem now, i think they are strong. |
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SublimeHauken - Back from the dead - Since 2007'
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| DarkSoldierX
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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2010, 03:54:19 pm » |
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What doctrines do you normaly play? They eat up bren squads I know that (FG42 phases through soldier armour) but they are trash vs rangers. Use a scout and find them, or just mortar the few pieces of green cover out there and you WILL hit them. Its fairly obious were they are always. They cant charge you like other elite infantry. They have no useful grenades. You snipe one of them they loose a FG42 thats 30 munitions down the drain and 25% of their firepower.
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| CrazyWR
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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2010, 03:55:16 pm » |
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Because the devs decided too much synergy is bad, and Luft is the first doctrine to be reworked into their new shitty doctrine image.
THIS. 100000x THIS. |
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1. New tactics? it's like JAWS, first one in the water dies
RCA-land where shells fall like raindrops and the Captain is an invincible god
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| Grundwaffe
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2010, 05:37:30 pm » |
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What doctrines do you normaly play? They eat up bren squads I know that (FG42 phases through soldier armour) but they are trash vs rangers. Use a scout and find them, or just mortar the few pieces of green cover out there and you WILL hit them. Its fairly obious were they are always. They cant charge you like other elite infantry. They have no useful grenades. You snipe one of them they loose a FG42 thats 30 munitions down the drain and 25% of their firepower.
Just like airborne, you can't use them up against a blob of knights cross.. *really depends then* |
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AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2010, 05:43:36 pm » |
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Except for them, everything is a blob of KCH =p
Thats the difference.
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Heartmann
Officer of Kindness
 Posts: 1776
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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2010, 05:57:39 pm » |
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Main prob with this doc is:
No main buffs for doc units = AB or Ranger Health, Reload and Accuracy boons
Buffs that do rise = are situation dependant as to teh fact of ambush or cover.
Other buffs = buff other units that are not doc based just faction based
Conclusion = This doc is a cake without baking powder, does not rise to meet the standards
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In the basement getting drunk.
It's not really creepy until I show up.............
 - I've heard of being an animal in bed but...  - The phallic principle of the Navy  |
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| CrazyWR
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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2010, 06:34:17 pm » |
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epic analogy
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Groundfire
EIRR community manager
EIR Veteran Posts: 8511
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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2010, 06:42:57 pm » |
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You guys got too used to the old luft with the passive fall super buffs where allied inf. just evaporated and there was no need for ambush.
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| panzerman
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« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2010, 06:46:54 pm » |
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omg that doctrine looks sad  i see hardly any buffs for falls which is a main reason play it... wat happened to all the old buffs it was not op! it was good. this just looks lacking in the buffs i was hoping for... You guys got too used to the old luft with the passive fall super buffs where allied inf. just evaporated and there was no need for ambush.
it was wat made them worth all the munitions... |
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Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
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« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2010, 07:22:40 pm » |
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when i played against you and heartmann, both Luftwafe, they did really well. Those luftwaf with rifle nades are freakin awesome because of their soldier armor they can just rush an hmg in a house or out in the open and easily take it down.
FJ with Rifles nades > Brits with rifle nades
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"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"
Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
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| EliteGren
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« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2010, 07:24:57 pm » |
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They are both great, the thing is that FJs get Ambush bonuses for them which is badly needed since they miss the Lieutenant.
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i prefer to no u
Don't knock it til uve tried it bitchface, this isn't anything like salads version. Besides u said a semois conversion would never work, now look that's the most played map, ohgodwhy.jpg r u map lead
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Heartmann
Officer of Kindness
Posts: 1776
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« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2010, 08:10:19 am » |
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But the thing is that the nades is one of the very few thing that are okey, and me and AMPM Spec me have played Lufft ALOT so i know how to use em to well not max but almost, seeing as im not the best player yet Its a real hard doc to play condering the other amazing buffs the other docs give, and thanks Crazy!  |
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| pqumsieh
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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2010, 09:58:12 am » |
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I have the opposite experience as someone who has played a good amount of games against luftwaffe. For everyone who feels the doctrine lacks synergy, i'd recommend talking to elite gren and getting some tips from him. The falls i faced were deadly tough and almost impossible to defeat with infantry. In fact, my airborne company has a stronger focus on AI yet I was no match whatsoever against elite gren's company.
At one point, I had 2 full health airborne bar squads in green cover against a single falls squad in yellow/green cover and eventually had to retreat both squads without even taking out one falls. Mind you this was executed using a medkits.
In either event, i like the new direction the devs are taking and recommend others take a step back and really analyze their criticism. I have yet to hear anything constructive in this thread or many others.
PQ
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Common sense is not so common after all.
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
 Posts: 9028
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« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2010, 10:00:01 am » |
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PQ - have in mind that BARs are more or less so a downgrade compared to a garand when fighting soldier armour . |
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