[us] Airborne Sniper

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[Spartan_Marine88]

A mobile scout car have worst DPS, and if it's AB, circle strafing a 57mm guarded by AB is suicidal.

And an IST can 1-shot the crew

[Firesparks]

And an IST can 1-shot the crew

the 6 pdr maybe, because of the lack of heavy cover.
The 57mm can usually shot a bit more since the gun piece give cover. If you manage to blind side the 57mm then it's really good fortune.

Of course, if you merely kill the crew but lost the IST then the allies can just recrew.

*sigh* stop whining about snipers to a british player.

I would agree that the british is a worst off against sniper. If the US wasn't AB then normally my vehicle have a much better reign of things and can hunt down the elusive sniper.
In this case, howerver, the Combination of the Super sniper and RR make it much harder on PE.

[Demon767]

3. Nerdrage

Some users love to base their arguments only on stats and throw "counter-counters" to the previous arguments, Nerdrage has only caused havoc among the threads in the Balance Forum and will be closely moderated to not allow threads go beyond 5+ pages or more just because 2 users can't agree they are just talking about probabilities.

ThoeryCrafting guys..

[Spartan_Marine88]

I would agree that the british is a worst off against sniper. If the US wasn't AB then normally my vehicle have a much better reign of things and can hunt down the elusive sniper.
In this case, howerver, the Combination of the Super sniper and RR make it much harder on PE.

if your having that much trouble throw in a couple light at-halftracks and use focus fire.


Everything can be dealt with and if your having that much trouble, than where are your allies?
This game isn't meant to be played 1v1 and that changes everything.

[Tymathee]

The normal sniper can't snipe the KCh either. The AB rifle and normal rifle have the same crit in regard to KCH.

grenadier, storm, and sniper are the only area where the AB snipers are inferior compare to the normal sniper, and the AB have heroic crit themselves.

The AB sniper have 5 less range(45), but it has 10 more sight(45) as well. The sniper can shoot farther if you use a spotter but the AB sniper can snipe farther if he's working alone.  The ab also have Fire up.

I said that, i posted the damn image saying what the ab sniper is, i dont need you to tell me what i just posted, wtf dude, do you read anything, or are you so dense that u totally missed what i said?

firesparks really just quit, you're alone, no one is taking your side in this thread or really in much of any of your other whining threads, this is getting tiresome..

[Spartan_Marine88]

firesparks really just quit, you're alone, no one is taking your side in this thread or really in much of any of your other whining threads, this is getting tiresome..

We don't want to chase you off, but lets be honest they can't change the mod to suit 1 persons idea on how it should be.

[AmPM]

They can if its my idea =p

[Spartan_Marine88]

jack ass

[Firesparks]

I said that, i posted the damn image saying what the ab sniper is, i dont need you to tell me what i just posted, wtf dude, do you read anything, or are you so dense that u totally missed what i said?

firesparks really just quit, you're alone, no one is taking your side in this thread or really in much of any of your other whining threads, this is getting tiresome..

You image merely describe the AB in general terms. I was reading from the actual files which give a lot more information than what your chart show.  

We don't want to chase you off, but lets be honest they can't change the mod to suit 1 persons idea on how it should be.

"A picture paints a thousand words"

And code shows just data it does not depict scenarios or tell you how to use it. just numbers, and basing everything off of numbers only works in a controlled environment (both in game and in real life) Experience will tell you more then a number ever will and allow you to understand how to use in an ever changing environment (like a 2v2)

His chat is merely a general description, and is outdated in the first place. (ab air doesn't have higher rof).
Taking the description at face value is also a mistake. Technical a range of 49 is still shorter than the normal sniper range of 50. The chat says the ab sniper can't do headshot but it turns out chest shot is still fatal. 

Lastly the description is merely written by someone else and is his own interruption.

[Spartan_Marine88]

You image merely describe the AB in general terms. I was reading from the actual files which give a lot more information than what your chart show.  

"A picture paints a thousand words"

And code shows just data it does not depict scenarios or tell you how to use it. just numbers, and basing everything off of numbers only works in a controlled environment (both in game and in real life) Experience will tell you more then a number ever will and allow you to understand how to use in an ever changing environment (like a 2v2)

[Firesparks]

"A picture paints a thousand words"

And code shows just data it does not depict scenarios or tell you how to use it. just numbers, and basing everything off of numbers only works in a controlled environment (both in game and in real life) Experience will tell you more then a number ever will and allow you to understand how to use in an ever changing environment (like a 2v2)

His chat is merely a general description.
Taking the description at face value is also a mistake. Technical a range of 49 is still shorter than the normal sniper range of 50. The chat says the ab sniper can't do headshot but it turns out chest shot is still fatal.  

Lastly the description is merely written by someone else and is his own interruption

[Spartan_Marine88]

So guys are just starting to insult whenever people disagree with you?

Ill be fully and bluntly honest I have played with you and found you new. Thats ok. It means you haven't obtained an understanding of the dynamics of the game yet.

stuff like this "The chat says the ab sniper can't do headshot but it turns out chest shot is still fatal." means nothing, do you mean to volks only, to grens (basic inf) or to KCH where i could see it being a problem. Is it always fatal?

Give a bigger explanation. Ill admit your good at finding out discrepencies in the units and thier numbers. But that in itself in my honest opinion means little in compared with actually using the unit extensively.
No one gets ripped to shreds by 1 unit. I may bitch and complain about snipers, but only because the best ones are protected by an atg and HMG. But in the end its more due to the players skill using the unit and the defending players ability to deal with it then how good it actually is.

[Uglysori]

AB Sniper still is countered by the same counters of any other Basic sniper. Its just slightly harder.

My only problem with Demon's argument is this statement.  AB sniper is not truly countered by the same counters especially if it has vet.  Bikes, Schwims don't do shit to the AB sniper by themselves.  Keep anything by the AB sniper and a single supporting unit will kill 1-2 bikes, etc... before the AB sniper dies.  Even single Pumas take a long time to kill the AB sniper if the sniper has vet.   They're not impossible to kill but to think they are countered the way normal snipers are countered is a fallacy given the sniper's armor type and ability to fire-up as well as it's normal cloaking abilities.   

[Demon767]

i cbf'd getting the replay showing you guys why he's rage posting.

but it has to do with him not being able to get close enough 1v1 against one of the best players in game with his AB sniper, RRs. ATG HMG's Flame engis. among my own troops defending him aswell. Id repeat again, the AB sniper was microed by one of the best players in the game. Hes basing everything of a single game with a AB sniper

It tipped him when the AB sniper survived with literally a sliver of health from 1 motocycle and 1 volks squad, mind you, i saved him with my bar squad and a half squad of Zooks.

Which means that the sniper died to less pop than was fielded by the opposing side in defending him.

just get over it. This is a whole rage post and most probably was his first time encountering an AB sniper so instantly he assumes its OP.

My only problem with Demon's argument is this statement.  AB sniper is not truly countered by the same counters especially if it has vet.  Bikes, Schwims don't do shit to the AB sniper by themselves.  Keep anything by the AB sniper and a single supporting unit will kill 1-2 bikes, etc... before the AB sniper dies.  Even single Pumas take a long time to kill the AB sniper if the sniper has vet.   They're not impossible to kill but to think they are countered the way normal snipers are countered is a fallacy given the sniper's armor type and ability to fire-up as well as it's normal cloaking abilities.   

as i said "Its just slightly harder" Its still can be countered like other basic Sniper. i do not retract my words that motocycles cant do anything to it. thats a false opinion

[Tymathee]

You image merely describe the AB in general terms. I was reading from the actual files which give a lot more information than what your chart show.  His chat is merely a general description, and is outdated in the first place. (ab air doesn't have higher rof).
Taking the description at face value is also a mistake. Technical a range of 49 is still shorter than the normal sniper range of 50. The chat says the ab sniper can't do headshot but it turns out chest shot is still fatal.  

Lastly the description is merely written by someone else and is his own interruption.

who cares what the actual stats are, you only put them up to be a smart ass. But whatever im done arguing with u cuz obviously you care more about your own opinion and dont care to take on anyone elses cuz clearly, you're always right no matter if its 1 vs 100 and even if someone does give a great argument, you try to step above them and prove you're righter! So whatever, either start to respect the opinion of much more seasoned eir players than you or no one will listen to you.

[Demon767]

Though i dont want you to be discouraged from posting balance threads Firesparks. The only thing that annoys some people (not naming) and me is that you dont really take on aboard our arguments. Im all for listening to what you have to say, the current evidence you usually put forward aint enough to validate your arguments most of the time. which than turns into a (counter-counter) argument. Make a clear and concise argument, placing evidence to why, screenshots, videos etc in your OPENING POST. Your arguments should not continue for 5 pages on why you think your right. We should be able to interpret what you think and make our own judgements from your first post.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Though i dont want you to be discouraged from posting balance threads Firesparks. The only thing that annoys some people (not naming) and me is that you dont really take on aboard our arguments. Im all for listening to what you have to say, the current evidence you usually put forward aint enough to validate your arguments most of the time. which than turns into a (counter-counter) argument. Make a clear and concise argument, placing evidence to why, screenshots, videos etc in your OPENING POST. Your arguments should not continue for 5 pages on why you think your right. We should be able to interpret what you think and make our own judgements from your first post.

+1

There are some other people who should deffinitly listen to this too

[Jazzhead]

Pretty much this whole thread can be summed up as NUMBERS vs EXPERIENCE, and i think that experience trumps every time. Stats don't mean shit if the user doesn't use the unit to it's full potential. Players win games, units don't. (unless it's vcoh roos -.- )

[Firesparks]

Though i dont want you to be discouraged from posting balance threads Firesparks.
..

i cbf'd getting the replay showing you guys why he's rage posting.

but it has to do with him not being able to get close enough 1v1 against one of the best players in game with his AB sniper, RRs. ATG HMG's Flame engis. among my own troops defending him aswell. Id repeat again, the AB sniper was microed by one of the best players in the game. Hes basing everything of a single game with a AB sniper.
...

Maybe I after spending the commandos thread sniper being told by Myst that doctrine unit are not supposed to be superior, I was pissed to see the AB sniper being as superior to the normal sniper (at least when I'm PE). Then I make this thread, and people start arguing that doctrine units needs to be superior to warrant use.
I'm tired of all those 180 turn I always see whenever I tried to argue something. One guy argument one way and then having a different guy using the completely opposite argument against me.
AmPm and demon were not arguing against Myst when Myst started going on about Doctrine unit needing to be equal to the non-doctrine. Now that I'm saying doctrine unit needs to be equal to the non-doctrine those two start arguing against me?

At least convince me that the t3 commandos sniper is not underpowered when compared to the T2 AB sniper. Maybe someone who've had use both would like to convince me.
Maybe after leveling my british commandos to level 8 along the british grit tree my patient was wearing thin.

[brn4meplz]

The AB sniper has drawbacks, but he is a survivable little bastard. Saying doctrine choices need to be superior or equal is a null argument. The whole point in doctrine choices is customization, and in most cases the doctrinal units give you access to something you don't have or a better type of unit. Cost of said unit usually brings things in line though.