The case for AB rifles?

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[FailHammer]

Why do they exist? So that you can more effectively blob as AB? Seriously, what is their justification?

[EIRRMod]

Candy?

[bayarea510]

Candy?

No, it's cookies.

[brn4meplz]

The same reason Luft. has access to AT infantry specialist(granted they need some love)

It adds flavour and allows the creation of entirely Air dropped companies. Commando's is actually a little lacking in the regard that they have no vanilla infantry to take advantage of their deployment mechanics

[NightRain]

When you guys will make Commandos come with rifles with no mun cost? That's the only fix Mandos need to become effective

[bbsmith]

The reason why Airborne get Airborne Infantry is because they don't have effective Anti-Infantry units. In the case of Commandos they already have Assault Infantry and Anti-Tank Infantry from Gliders, there's no reason to add in Tommies that drop from Gliders.

[Smokaz]

Sigged

[NightRain]

That anti infantry sucks, everyone who uses commandos knows it and most people don't even use 'em due to their high manpower and munition cost. This 'ANTI-INFANTRY' unit can only safely engage a unarmed volksquad in the open without risking casualities

[Smokaz]

That anti infantry sucks, everyone who uses commandos knows it and most people don't even use 'em due to their high manpower and munition cost. This 'ANTI-INFANTRY' unit can only safely engage a unarmed volksquad in the open without risking casualities

Besides Bob being addicted to crack saying ab rifles compensates for a real defiency in AI units for ameican ab , whats your problem?

Commandos 1v1 all other infantry in the game, without casualties using their blunt buff ability.

They are not mass blob assault infantry, they're like a knife you take out and safely stab someone with without retribution.

If you wanna be cool and blob with lots of inf, we have something called rifles.

[brn4meplz]

Commando's get destroyed by Assault grens for a cheaper cost. manpower/munitions/pop. Commando's blow pretty hard. It's the absurd smoke cooldown.

[Smokaz]

Well they have a large defiency against soldier armor, no surprise there

[jackmccrack]

The reason why Airborne get Airborne Infantry is because they don't have effective Anti-Infantry units. In the case of Commandos they already have Assault Infantry and Anti-Tank Infantry from Gliders, there's no reason to add in Tommies that drop from Gliders.

PIAT Commandos are great but Tetrarchs are shit.

[LeoPhone]

AB dont need airdroppable AI. the advantage of AB is they can airdrop, disadvantage is lack AI. if you want infantry that is good AI and AT take rangers (who cant paradrop).
AB rifles are great AI, and AB are much better AT than rangers. on top of that they can paradrop, it unbalances the game. its like an airdroppable pershing. every unit needs a weakness

if you want your airborne to work, you should support them with other units(that arrive from spawn) instead of the blobcrap going on now. doctrines are an addition, not your complete army.

[AmPM]

AB are fine as is, use some MP40 volks or LMG grens and laugh your ass off.

[Mysthalin]

Airborne.

Since the dawn of EiR Airborne had had a certain weakness to their mighty Recoilless Rifle. And that was being raped horribly by a single volksgrenadier squad, should it come close.
And the airborne devised many counters to that. The nukelar pineapple. The Sherman Crocodile. The Quad. The Sniper. The trollstrafe. Many, many things were used by the airborne - each requiring skill(or not - but then they were limited in number).
Then, suddenly, the Airborne Rifleman came to be. Combining the high survivability of airborne with the massive damage output(at all ranges) of the BAR it became the be-all-end-all solution to any footed problem the airborne ever had. And thus the dance macabre of the balance forums began again.

My own personal opinion is that the airborne rifleman serves one good role to the overall gameplay of Airborne. And that role is it makes sure there isn't 8 MGs set up across the frontline into which the Airborne can retreat at any time - sherely because having Airborne Rifles is cooler.
Now, this isn't a set-it-in-stone solution to the possible problem of MG creep defending an RR skirmisher detachment : it's merely a distraction. And it does give Airborne a very solid assault anti-infantry unit.

The main problem I see with the airborne rifleman is quite frankly the BAR. It's quite frankly the most versatile anti-infantry infantry weapon in the game. It will do tons of damage at close range, and it will still scale well at long range. If the BAR upgrade was replaced with some sort of more close-range-based weapon(Shotgun, M1A3 Carbine in full-auto?) : it would at least allow long range stand-off infantry to effectively duel with the airborne blob(for instance - grenadiers) - while still maintaining the overall anti-infantry capability of the Airborne rifleman unit.

That is all as far as airborne is concerned.

As far as the Lee-Enfield commandoes go - I must agree with Speedy. The commando is simply too expensive to be used as a proper assault infantry. They CAN rack up tons of kills, and they WILL - if they're used as a guerilla sneaky lone flanker unit. But put up a few houses, put an LMG in - assume basic nade-dodging capability on the axis side and voilla - the commando has been utterly neutered.

We are not asking for a glider tommy, Bob. We are asking for a glider-dropped airborne equivilent : a unit that has access to either the expensive sten guns(RR equiv), or just a cheap grenade : standing off at long range with the rifles, if the need arises. Something that is simple, yet effective at what it does.

[Nimitz]

I don't see why the EiRR team has gotten the tendency to try and buff a special unit so, so that its weaknesses are gone.

Airborne has gotten AR w/ BARs to make up for the weak AI of Airborne RRs (NOT of the doc because that ain't true).

Tank reapers buffing ATGs to be even stronger is fine, but we're buffing their role (AT) here, and that's okay, unlike with Rangers which can then with tank reapers counter everything on the field, although their original purpose was AI and light AT.

I don't think it's OP, just think it's wrong to try and give 1 or 2 units counters to everything.

The main problem I see with the airborne rifleman is quite frankly the BAR. It's quite frankly the most versatile anti-infantry infantry weapon in the game. It will do tons of damage at close range, and it will still scale well at long range. If the BAR upgrade was replaced with some sort of more close-range-based weapon(Shotgun, M1A3 Carbine in full-auto?) : it would at least allow long range stand-off infantry to effectively duel with the airborne blob(for instance - grenadiers) - while still maintaining the overall anti-infantry capability of the Airborne rifleman unit.

+1

[NightRain]

Mysthalin's post earns:
++++++1

[rifle87654]

No need to take away units that I relied on heavily.
Mp44, Mp40, Ost, Puma 20mm, AC kills me all of the time.

[Smokaz]

Bar is kinda puny against PE, it's not far from the truth that equal pop of assault grens will munch them.

However Airborne Rifles doesn't fulfill any special role other than being able to take more fire than rifles. If you think a airborne player would be helpless at AI without airborne rifles.. not only is it wrong but it ignores a whole history of eirr airborne!

[Mysthalin]

True - the BAR is useless versus PE infantry. I've literally beaten two squads of AB rifles w/ BARs with two half-health pzgren squads at medium range, losing 1 man on each squad. 0.4 rec dmg and 0.6 rec acc is awesome .

However, it is much the fault of the AB player that he did not move into close range. At short range the garand utterly destroys PE infantry, and the AB rifleman's health allows him to keep on trucking for extended periods of time.