The case for AB rifles?

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[Groundfire]

They had SF in their first iteration. You have not played AB since day 1, since AB day 1 was before you started playing.

Anyway, yes they did have SF, it was broken, it got removed.

Fine, EIRR AB, day 1

[EIRRMod]

AB rifles have never had SF. Ive played AB from day 1 and I would've known if they had that.

They did.

[bbsmith]

Day 1 was when it was a T3 in the old Doctrine system. No one ever picked it except I think Lai tried them out.

[puddin]

They had SF in their first iteration. You have not played AB since day 1, since AB day 1 was before you started playing.

Anyway, yes they did have SF, it was broken, it got removed.

I shall find you the patch notes, if they still exist.

Probly wasn;t suppose to...But was an oversight and ppl used it anyhow..... Annoying when that happens eh?

I rmember they were not suppose to because it would be to powerfull...  

[AmPM]

Actually, they were supposed too at first, then it was found to be completely broken and removed.

I hate when people use unintended features, like using M10 crush to turn it into an AI vehicle, or using suicide M8 mines =)

[lionel23]

Or Pak 40s cloaking?

[AmPM]

Yea, it was lolz. Too bad they are terrible even with the cloak.

I think my favorite feature is Gliders into buildings. Luckily, I have become adept at dodging them.

I think Puddin is the last person to complain about exploiting whats in the game. That's where I find his crying hilarious. The best part, it does the same damage with less pen as a 57mm with AP rounds, for the same cost on a slower gun. But OMG the damage is OP!!!

You can check my companies over the last few games though, the PaK 40 is so useless that I've just gone back to PaK 38's.

[lionel23]

It is OP in that it seems to me to have more health than a normal ATG, which means it will win ATG snipe wars.  Had 3 ATGs get beaten by a Pak 40.  I'm not afraid of it against tanks (never would throw anything like a vehicle at it) but it just annihlates Allied ATGs that can't cloak and can't do enough damage to it.

[Groundfire]

Idk how we all came to the conclusion that Pak40 = always AP rounds on 57mm is somehow useless.

Seems quite silly to me. Dont need the extra penetration when your blowing apart M10s in 3 shots.

[AmPM]

It is OP in that it seems to me to have more health than a normal ATG, which means it will win ATG snipe wars.  Had 3 ATGs get beaten by a Pak 40.  I'm not afraid of it against tanks (never would throw anything like a vehicle at it) but it just annihlates Allied ATGs that can't cloak and can't do enough damage to it.

Yea, thats due to a couple bugs, its high accuracy vs infantry targets, its high accuracy vs other ATGs and its higher than normal HP.

As I said though, for the cost of fielding it, not only in its own price, but supporting its slow firing, slow moving ass, you are better off with a PaK 38...by far...

I love the model and sound though, but not good enough to find a place in my company. Definitely not worth a T3-T4 unlock...

[AmPM]

Idk how we all came to the conclusion that Pak40 = always AP rounds on 57mm is somehow useless.

Seems quite silly to me. Dont need the extra penetration when your blowing apart M10s in 3 shots.

It doesn't have AP round Pen, just damage. From what I was told of its stats, it's pen is only slightly better than the 57mm normally is.

[lionel23]

From what Burn got through the stats, it pretty much always penetrates everything, man I wish I had that for allies that didn't cost 40mu and only gave a higher chance to pen XD

[AmPM]

57mm AP rounds always penetrates too =)

Its funny how when the allies are fighting a 57mm its suddenly OP.

[Groundfire]

It doesn't have AP round Pen, just damage. From what I was told of its stats, it's pen is only slightly better than the 57mm normally is.

Dont need no super penetration when it already pens. everything all the time anyways.

Base penetration: L/M/S = 1.5/1.75/2

Penetration modifier vs. sherman armor is .867

Which means it penetrates shermans at all ranges at the worst 129% of the time

57mm AP rounds always penetrates too =)

Its funny how when the allies are fighting an AP rounds always on 57mm its suddenly OP.

There we go.

Edit #7: and Im not saying it's OP. Im saying your undercutting the effectiveness of this fucking awesome AT gun.

[lionel23]

Thank you Ground for pointing that out ^^

[AmPM]

It's not bad, its just not better than the alternatives, and in the current gaming environment with a lack of Churchills to shoot (where did they all go?) I find the PaK 38 more than sufficient to deal with my static AT requirements.

Also, the whining has been about the PaK 40 being OP, when it really isn't.

[lionel23]

57mm AP rounds always penetrates too =)

Its funny how when the allies are fighting a 57mm its suddenly OP.

Need I remind you, Allies don't have access to the shit tons of Super Heavies like the Axis.  Considering the best tanks are Churchs and Shermans and the occassional Pershing tank... which is at best a panther-equivalent compared to the Tiger, King Tiger, Jadgpanther, JadgTiger, etc.  Then add in skirted tanks and Panthers, axis really don't need an always on AP round gun.

And AP rounds does not guarantee penetration of 57mm, and AP rounds can still bounce off King Tigers and their ilk with annoying frequency or hit terrain/miss, burning precious time on the limited time ability.

[puddin]

AMPM... your really sayign this... 

PERMANENT Ap Rounds for 40 Mu... Is comparable to at MOST 2 shots from my 57 for 40MU is Equal... 

So if you shoot your pak 40 5 times you have done more then me... 

Amazing how ou have an extremely strong unit that DEMOLISHES all allied armor and you play it down... 

This is why your never taken seriously, You can;t admit when your wrong even when Groundfire points out the stats. 

I don;t need stats to see that i Got an M-18 2 shoted, The greyhound ,Maybe slightly dmged... Ws 1 shoted.  Both out of cloak that fixed, But still

3 shot an M-10, Layer 2 and anything else and its fucked... The amount of dmg done is critical. 

Also The best part... your argument is that ITs Slow... 

So tell ME... It has BETTER speed then a jumbo by .2 and can rape it...  Your "Slow" Agt Gun out runs Our New Heavy Tank... Again some disparity... 

But again I am sure you will only take on 1 point in this post liek most ppl in this commuity and ignore the rest.  BEcause you just have to be right..

DAMN THE GAME-PLAY DAMN THE STATS!!!!!

[AmPM]

Ok, let us examine the gun.

It has constant AP rounds, sorta. Yes it does for 40mu and a reward point. Making it more expensive by far than the 57mm or PaK.

3 shots an m10, yes, if you leave said M10 in front of it you deserve it, at most you should get hit once. Mind you, thats one less shot than a PaK 38 which fires and aims faster (or so it seems in gameplay, I'd actually really like to see its raw DPS vs a PaK 40)

Your reasoning behind it being OP, layering it, another PaK 40, and another form of AT and your tanks die...How is that different than 3 Layered properly supporting PaKs?

Where was I wrong? It's nowhere near the AP rounds Pen bonus, is it good? Yea, did I every say it didn't penetrate? No.

Does it demolish all Allied Armor? Yea, if you sit in front of it. Does a PaK do the same, yea, pretty much.

Is it slow, yes, is the Jumbo slow? Yes, is the KT slow? Yes. How does the Jumbo being slow counter the PaK 40 being slow? It doesn't. Both are slow.

Jumbo is not a heavy tank BTW, its an uparmored slow ass Sherman. A heavy tank also has good offensive power.

[Illegal_Carrot]

+Constant high damage/penetration rounds (though not as good as actual 57mm AP rounds)
-40 Mu more than PaK 38, equal cost of 57mm with AP rounds
-Slower rate of fire and aim time
-Slower movement speed
-When bug is fixed (if it hasn't been already), cannot cloak

It really isn't such an amazing piece of equipment. Constant high damage/penetration rounds is nice, but in the end higher rate-of-fire is more important than sheer damage (just like a PaK 38 vs a 57mm)
From it's first cloaked shot, a PaK 38 does about equal damage, and actually has better penetration and accuracy and a 40. But while the 40 is slow as hell to reload and aim, the 38 is faster, and thus is more likely to get a second shot off. Meaning the 38 is actually do more damage than the 40 in a real engagement. But if you just park your tank right in front of an ATG (it doesn't matter if it's a 40, a 38, a 57 or whatever), then yeah, it's gonna die.
Speed vs sheer power; the 38 is better.

PLUS, it's a reward unit. It costs Reward points. It's supposed to be better than average.

Also, I'm sorry your Jumbo is slow as hell. Thats an issue with the Jumbo sucking, and not the PaK 40 being OP.


Now can we move this discussion to the PaK 40 thread where it belongs:
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=16688.0