Vet Rework

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[nugnugx]

They are done. Me and Bob finished it in january.

Are they waiting for warmap?

[EliteGren]

Waiting for EIRRmod to implement the veterancy code change, which will happen after the warmap. Essentially, yes

[Tymathee]

any insight on whats been changed?

[EliteGren]

Generally

Vet 1 is now an offensive bonus. Defensive buff moved to vet 2. Vet 3 and 4 will be special bonuses, depending on the unit. Vet 5 is a survivability buff

There will be no official full veterancy list, just like in old EiR you will see what the vet level gives in the launcher when you earned it on your unit (EIRRMod needs to add this).

[AmPM]

Why would you not release a list?

All it means is we have to write it down and post it so people can see whether or not it matters.

[EliteGren]

To make it more interesting.

[AmPM]

Interesting now = annoying?

That would be like not giving patch notes and just saying "figure it out", there is no reason to do so.

[EliteGren]

If that's what you consider annoying you should go see a therapist.

[AmPM]

It's true, it's like undocumented stats.

1) We have to make a post listing them anyway

2) It's not like they are randomly determined so it's going to be the same for that unit any time

All it means is more work for the community to make the list when you could just post the document.

Want to make vet interesting? Make it change based on a list of possible bonuses for that level. That way 2 vet units have a chance to be different from each other.

[EliteGren]

It's true, it's like undocumented stats.

1) We have to make a post listing them anyway

Why exactly would you have to do this? Do you not remember how hard people tried to get a Vet 3 M10 to see what it gives to them?

[AmPM]

Because you lose performance on certain units by trying to retain vet on it?

Like the M10 for example, if it gets vet that's nice, but it's more effective as a cruise missile that you don't expect to come back.

Like most infantry....sure, it's nice to get vet. But most often you will get more out of it leaving it on the field with 1 guy and just fighting or running around capping.

Trying to add artificial value to vet by making it "mysterious" is stupid. Make the vet worth having and people will get it just to get it.

[DarkSoldierX]

I like it when I dont know. Personally I like the "mysterious" factor of first playing a game, and finding out what its like.

[AmPM]

Which works in single player games where you can maintain that mystery by avoiding FAQ's.

On the other hand, do you want to play an MMO where you put time into levelling and have to upgrade to a skill that you don't know what it does?

[EliteGren]

Because you lose performance on certain units by trying to retain vet on it?

Well then don't. And if it really bothers you you can still check it out in the RGDs. But then again why would you if you are never going to have a vetted M10 anyway?

Trying to add artificial value to vet by making it "mysterious" is stupid. Make the vet worth having and people will get it just to get it.

The purpose would be to make people keep discovering things and abilities as they play - you basically get new content every once in a while. How is that not superior compared to having 1 big list with all new abilities and bonuses listed and ready to be read in 1 go and you know everything from the get go? The 2nd variant of release sounds plain boring to me. Can't understand how you can prefer it

[DarkSoldierX]

Im pretty sure in a MMO 95% of all infornmation on their wiki's is gathered by the users, not the makers., and Elitegren is right, Unless they encript the RGD's you can still just look at them.

[AmPM]

Because it is a competitive game.

May as well make what units do random, that way there is always a surprise!!

Knowing what to get and what not to get based on it's abilities is part of the metagame.

Im pretty sure in a MMO 95% of all infornmation on their wiki's is gathered by the users, not the makers., and Elitegren is right, Unless they encript the RGD's you can still just look at them.

You are right, should have it posted right after the patch then.

[8thRifleRegiment]

creep some rgd's after the pathc, take some notes, presto now i can see vet again

[EliteGren]

Knowing what to get and what not to get? Veterancy is not just picked up like a doctrine ability, you either have it or you don't. Planning on which units you want to vetwhore sounds extremely stupid to me, considering people are not really a huge fan of big ass veterancy farm companies and we are not interested in promoting vet whoring. Also, as you said before, you lose performance on units by trying to retain vet on them.

[AmPM]

Why? Vet whoring the right units, to a point, is very effective. For instance, Vet 3 Artillery fires much faster than vet 0 currently. Vet 3 Infantry get minor bonuses unless using high damage weapons, meaning you are better off letting them fight to 1 man and not worrying than retreating at 2-3 men.

Knowing which units are worth vetting, and which aren't, and playing accordingly is actually pretty important to the metagame.

Either way, the argument is moot. I'll post it from the RGDs.

[RikiRude]

Some people NEED to know that kind of info, I don't really care about vet, the only useful vet (to me) us reduced timers or an extra use of something, but I think it's quite helpful knowing what everything does.

Take for example, bigger sticky range at vet 2. If you have no idea that you get better range on vet 2, and you are fighting rifles, and one of those rifles stickies your tank, you will immediately call h4x!

Personally, if you guys put that info up I'll read it, and I'm more likely to vet up a unit if I know it will be worth it (especially if we are going to be paying SPs for it). But if you guys don't put it up, well that just means someone will get the rdg or whatever and post it with in a few days.