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Author Topic: Proposed Armor Rework  (Read 12185 times)
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Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9028


« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2010, 02:19:59 pm »

speed increase on dozers and mineflails will only promote crushing infantry, even though the extra speed would be nice if you ignore that. but inf crush should not be a tactic....
Why shouldn't it? If you have nothing that can dish out massive instant damage at short range (AKA fausts) when a tank tries to crush you - well, then you've been outplayed. Come more prepared next time.

Though I do agree 0.85 speed while using the mineflail could get pretty silly. It would essentially be better than the old flank speed shermans with mineflail.
(3.9 speed using mineflail back then, 4.42 with smokaz's proposed speed mod).
And we do remember what that brought to the wonderful world of EiRR(moar bitching).

Perhaps making it a modifier of 0.67 - so the Sherman is at 3.5 speed(lockdown P4 IST with SE T3 speed).
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salan Offline
Synergies TL2 mod!
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« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2010, 03:31:27 pm »

TBH Burn, other than some minor changes and a couple tree's being redone, we should just stick with what we have, get RCA in, and fix it up.

Doctrine reworks once a year, when we can't even get all the doctrines put in in a year, is retarded.

happens everytime the group working on it changes.  Balance and ideas are completely subjective Wink
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lionel23 Offline
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« Reply #42 on: October 20, 2010, 03:44:50 pm »

churchill armor on every sherman... wtf ru smoking?
This does NOT grant Churchill armor, merely skirts upgrade and 10% more HP for the tank.
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lionel23 Offline
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« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2010, 03:56:51 pm »

The 15% less penetration.. woulder how useful that would be.

Your Veteran Crews is by far the most interesting T4 suggestion I've seen for armor, where buffs are powerful but on different units and suited for their them. The flat out buffs prefered by our previous and current buffs very often fail both in the idea and execution department to give different types of buffs to different types of units. Perhaps its easier with armor who has so many different types of vehicles/armor. Usually its +25% accuracy to grens or volks, taking this type of approach to it further it might be more interesting and suited for volks to gain a extra man and for grens to gain less received accuracy.

Other armor drafts by har including the current one fail to really buff the crocodile sherman, this one has a nice +20% damage T4 for it. The pershing one was kind of weak though. I would say speed - acceleration - penetration would be nice buffs for the pershing.

Heh thanks for the feedback Smokaz, I helped Carrot come up with the idea for that T4, and for the exact same reasons you are saying. A blanket buff doesn't help units that are all used differently (ie a quad getting a 10% life buff really doesn't help it as compared to say a Sherman tank, as both have different roles and survivability).  The Crocodile buff I especially liked, make it a interesting choice over just getting mass regular shermans, though wasn't sure on what to give the Pershing. I know TDs are all about damage, Shermans are about taking hits and supporting, and I didn't want to give too massive an HP buff to a very tough allied tank, so perhaps a speed or penetration bonus on it would be more preferable than just health for that.  What do you think the Pershing would need for its role?

And I honestly like the T2 Dozers unlock option, the ability to heavy crush on a regular sherman (would be mututally exclusive to mineflail, obviously) can be a HUGE thing, as well as making the AI Sherman Croc have a .50 cal to be better at killing infantry and make it a worthwhile addition to an allied army.  Currently, the damage is so random (relying on crits) that I rather take regular shermans since they can kite and splash/instant kill shrek squads while the croc tends to half the time 'bathe' the enemy in warm juice... heh.

Not so sure about improved speed for those tanks, as Leophone says, would lead to crushing as a heavily used tactic. And honestly I want more survivability on Shermans (skirts/hp) and that dozer is perfect, as well as removing obstacles so tanks and allied ATGs and troops can move more freely when axis have a lot of means to remove cover.
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Demon767 Offline
Warmap Betatester
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« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2010, 07:20:13 pm »

Theres nothing wrong with crushing. Its a risky Tactic. but pro if done properly. stop QQ's and learn to bring on more AT
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Illegal_Carrot Offline
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« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2010, 05:50:16 pm »

But Shermans can crush while moving at 100% speed with the dozer/flail up, so I don't see why it's an issue.
No one's seriously going to try to crush inf at 85% speed when they can already do it at 100% speed.
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Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2010, 11:21:32 pm »

Illegal - the Mineflail being used extends the Sherman's length by about 50/60 percent - and infantry do not SEE the mineflail as a part of the Sherman, which utterly fucks up their pathing in regard to the mineflail... Ending up with tons of squishy squishy.
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