The new grindless system - Factional progression (FP)

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[AmPM]

I put some thought into Newbie Rewards a while back. Have you considered adding in Units as well that function as a callin and do not stay with the company? Like an 80% effective Sherman for a few points or some such?

Veterancy is easily taken upto at least 8 levels on most units, no reason we can't get it to 10 levels and have it only slightly more effective at vet 10 than it currently is at vet 3. It would also help reduce the effect of vet spam by making it harder to get significant upgrades on your mans.

[Unkn0wn]

How would you display 10 levels of veterancy?
Also, AFAIK from a coding point of view, it's a lot of work to add 7 entire new levels on top of the current.

[AmPM]

New vet icons....

[panzerman]

i think wat he means is spread out the current vet so when they get to vet 10 that would be the equivlent strength of a vet 3 unit of the system we have now

just get smaller buffs and are more spread out.

[Unkn0wn]

No, I meant how will you get 10 levels without confusing the hellof people so they still know what vet level a unit is at? Unless you want to go use numbers, which wouldn't be very appealing.

I think 5 vet levels would suffice really. But I do like the idea of having smaller, incremental buffs for every level.

[AmPM]

vet 1-3 icons can be recycled with different colors

Start with Black, go Green, go Gold, then a new vet 10 symbol.

[Spartan_Marine88]

How would you display 10 levels of veterancy?
Also, AFAIK from a coding point of view, it's a lot of work to add 7 entire new levels on top of the current.

I have seen 5 vet levels done pretty smoothly on a lot of mods.

http://www.defense.gov/specials/insignias/enlisted.html

This will probably help too

[EIRRMod]

I put some thought into Newbie Rewards a while back. Have you considered adding in Units as well that function as a callin and do not stay with the company? Like an 80% effective Sherman for a few points or some such?

Yep, but where to put them was the issue programatically.

Another idea thrown in was a random small AI taskforce - but that might come in to scenarios or something for the warmap.

[3rdCondor]

Good news is that EIRMOD has plenty of motivation to meet a deadline of December 25 2010.

[Groundfire]

Another idea thrown in was a random small AI taskforce - but that might come in to scenarios or something for the warmap.

That reminds me, Im going to write you a msg when I get the chance. I found an old scar code on relicnews that allows cinematic NIS sequences to play out at the start of multiplayer matches (like single player)

There was a youtube video of it working and everything, I thought it would be epic for when we put togather warmap based scenarios.

[TheWindCriesMary]

 Basically just sounds like communism.

 Everybody gets essentially the same reward regardless of their individual contribution, and god forbid those who work harder should ever receive benefits that those who don't in another faction do not. That would be "unfair".

 So not only is a faction's development an "all together" nonsense share circle, weaker factions with players who don't play as much ALSO are given handicaps so that they don't fall behind? What is this, Candyland?

Give me a break. I don't vote conservative in Canadian elections, and I'm not a fan of the American GOP, but even I can say this is bullshit. Give me at least some kind of a free market here.

Incentivize hard work, not entitlement complexes and laziness.

 -Wind

[EliteGren]

This is not some kind of psychatrie where people who are mentally deranged hold speeches and post fancy propaganda pictures to inspire people, thinking they are some kind of great politican. This is a forum for a modification of a great game we all love - and let's discuss it like a game. If you want to criticize our new system then feel free to do so, but do it in a serious manner.

In other words: Seriously cut down on this shit and keep it in your pants for the campaign, everyone.

/killjoy

[EIRRMod]

So not only is a faction's development an "all together" nonsense share circle, weaker factions with players who don't play as much ALSO are given handicaps so that they don't fall behind? What is this, Candyland?
 -Wind

This would hold true if the only system in place was the grind.

However, its not.

*shrug*
Like I said, if it doesnt work, it doesnt work ;p

[Tymathee]

can we try something new 1st b4 we tear it a new one?

[tank130]

Incentivize hard work, not entitlement complexes and laziness.
 -Wind

Spamming games all freaken day is not hard work. It is time consuming work, but not hard work.

Winning battles due to skills rather than special add on abilities is hard work. Gaining an ability because of the number of games played is not a skill or hard work.

With that being said, however, this is a game. The most popular games in the world are the ones who incentivize playing more, rather than rewarding everyone the same regardless of the amount of time they dedicate.
 -Wind

This is a bold statement you make.
I just jumped online at VCoH.  2:30 p.m. PST. If I am not mistaken, this is not a peak time for game play.
However: There are currently 4,476 games being played. The peak number of games at anytime was 12,098
Total games played to date 441,183,459.
VCoH has no reward system in place; only a rank system. Over 400 million games have been played in a system that does not reward you for the number of games you play.
I think you are over exaggerating the importance of rewarding someone for the number of games played.

In my opinion: Rewards for great play > rewards for spamming games

[AmPM]

But Tank, you were also AGAINST rewards for winning.

Your complaint about making vet the grind and major difference was that people that were not as good would not stand a chance of keeping vet.

You would also be against winning being what counts towards gaining points instead of games played.

I think we should do both of those, reward the good player, if you can't bother to get better, you don't advance.

[tank130]

I am not, and have never been against awards for wining.
I am however, very against taking something away for loosing.

I fully support a vet system as a "grind" so to speak, but not doctrines.
I feel casual players should have just as much ability as hard core game spammers.

So to clarify using Vet as the grind:

A good player, regardless of how often he plays, has the same opportunity to gain and maintain vet as a player who plays more often. That vet is gained by playing well. The vet is the reward for skilled play.

Obviously, if you had two players of equal skill and one played often, and the other not as often; The player who played more often would gain more vet at a quicker rate. The second player would have to play better, or more often to match. But I think this is a rare case.

Vet is the reward for good skills on the battle field. Vetting your units to the highest levels would be the grind.
 
A new player to the mod would only be at a disadvantage to the highly skilled players who maintained a high level of Vet. Let’s face it, the majority of the players here would have a tough time maintaining large amounts of vet (assuming of course the vet levels are not set at ridiculously low levels). There would also be a much larger low level player base for them to play.

XP used to purchase vet:

Every game played will give a pre-determined amount of XP. If you win the game, your xp amount is increased.
All remaining units that were deployed in battle, will receive the xp. This will eliminate people playing for only 5 mins just to get XP.

So basically: you play hard and smart to win. Your smart play not only preserves your units, but you are rewarded for the good play with extra xp. You need to play well to win and you are rewarded for doing so.

By not penalizing people for loosing, you eliminate people dodging new players for fear of losing xp.

DOCTRINES:

Doctrines need to stay in the game to allow people the customization they want. This creates a bond with your company and a personalization. Doctrines should not be the reward for spamming games.

In a warmap environment, the doctrines should be released as the war progresses.

There is the slight possibility some players may not play until the war map is near it's end, just so they can get all the doctrines at once, but they will not have any xp for their vet. There will be dick heads in this mod no matter what we do, but we do not have to create the mod around them.

The way I see this system working:

Doctrines give us the customization we want. We gain Doctrine abilities as the war progresses, keeping us interested in continuing with to play.

Vet gives us the reward for good play. Vet is rewarded to players who play well. Reaching maximum vet is the grind, but you have to L2P to get it.

We reward good players, but do not take away from poor players. Everybody gains xp for playing, but the winners are rewarded even more for playing well.
 
We would need to implement something in the launcher to ensure winners of stacked games do not receive additional xp.

[AmPM]

I am not, and have never been against awards for wining.
I am however, very against taking something away for loosing.

I fully support a vet system as a "grind" so to speak, but not doctrines.
I feel casual players should have just as much ability as hard core game spammers.

So to clarify using Vet as the grind:

A good player, regardless of how often he plays, has the same opportunity to gain and maintain vet as a player who plays more often. That vet is gained by playing well. The vet is the reward for skilled play.

Obviously, if you had two players of equal skill and one played often, and the other not as often; The player who played more often would gain more vet at a quicker rate. The second player would have to play better, or more often to match. But I think this is a rare case.

Vet is the reward for good skills on the battle field. Vetting your units to the highest levels would be the grind.
 
A new player to the mod would only be at a disadvantage to the highly skilled players who maintained a high level of Vet. Let’s face it, the majority of the players here would have a tough time maintaining large amounts of vet (assuming of course the vet levels are not set at ridiculously low levels). There would also be a much larger low level player base for them to play.

XP used to purchase vet:

Every game played will give a pre-determined amount of XP. If you win the game, your xp amount is increased.
All remaining units that were deployed in battle, will receive the xp. This will eliminate people playing for only 5 mins just to get XP.

So basically: you play hard and smart to win. Your smart play not only preserves your units, but you are rewarded for the good play with extra xp. You need to play well to win and you are rewarded for doing so.

By not penalizing people for loosing, you eliminate people dodging new players for fear of losing xp.

DOCTRINES:

Doctrines need to stay in the game to allow people the customization they want. This creates a bond with your company and a personalization. Doctrines should not be the reward for spamming games.

In a warmap environment, the doctrines should be released as the war progresses.

There is the slight possibility some players may not play until the war map is near it's end, just so they can get all the doctrines at once, but they will not have any xp for their vet. There will be dick heads in this mod no matter what we do, but we do not have to create the mod around them.

The way I see this system working:

Doctrines give us the customization we want. We gain Doctrine abilities as the war progresses, keeping us interested in continuing with to play.

Vet gives us the reward for good play. Vet is rewarded to players who play well. Reaching maximum vet is the grind, but you have to L2P to get it.

We reward good players, but do not take away from poor players. Everybody gains xp for playing, but the winners are rewarded even more for playing well.
 
We would need to implement something in the launcher to ensure winners of stacked games do not receive additional xp.

This is false, any idiot can gain vet by retreating at the first sign of trouble, the only way to keep vet in the hands of people playing well is to have an XP penalty or rewarding no XP to units if you lose. That way, you can't run on, kill something, hit retreat and gain vet even if you lose the game.

You have to have a penalty in place to make anything stay the realm of good players and not the realm of game spammers.

[lionel23]

At the same time forcing a penalty will encourage game dodging as tough games will penalize you while easy games reward you for picking easy wins..

[tank130]

The key would be in balancing the xp for playing the game.
I would propose that the amount of your xp would be small enough that you would have to deploy that unit in 8 to 10 games just to get enough xp to gain one vet level.

It would be possible I suppose to vet your whole army by spamming 40 games a day just to vet up your army, but the guys you play against are going to get the win and vet faster because they get the extra xp for winning.

As soon as you penalize people for loosing, players will dodge like fucking crazy.