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[TheWindCriesMary]

 I think it's important for people, in the interest of ending the "LOLS OMG US GOT RAPED HAHAHA" 4 year-old reading level interpretations of history, to recognize the difference between a war and an insurgency.

 The Iraq war was won. The Iraq Occupation, however, continues to this day and has yet to be concluded (successfully or otherwise).

 Vietnam was a war. What is going on in Iraq right now, and what is going on in Mexico for that matter, are not.

Also, just so people know, I'm not American.

 -Wind
 

[Mysthalin]

It's a partisan war, but a war nonetheless.

And US did get raped in vietnam. Pew-pewed.

[TheWindCriesMary]

It's a partisan war, but a war nonetheless.

And US did get raped in vietnam. Pew-pewed.

 Why are you convinced someone is trying to tell you US did not lose in Vietnam? Paranoia is the symptom of insanity.

 Also, branding "war" as a broad brush stroke is both inaccurate, irresponsible, and belies a basic misunderstanding of the inherrent complexity of the term. That might not have been your intention, but if this discussion is moving beyond the neanderthal discussion that characterized it's beginning... it's going to mean taking it seriously.

 -Wind

[Mysthalin]

as I was saying, the US was raped in Vietnam.

Also, the french are taking over Canada. True story.

[AmPM]

Demon, if you knew any better, the loss of Europe to Nazi Germany was directly the fault of the French and British forces not mobilizing sooner, and not going to the aid of countries like Poland.

In fact, Poland held out longer than all of Western Europe. The fought in hopes that Europe would respond to its treaties and come to it's aid, when in fact the rest of Europe was trying to pretend nothing was happening.

Vietnam, French failed first, US tries to help out, people back home get all QQ because its the first real televised war and it people were not ready for the reality. That and a lack of will to just annihilate the North ends in US withdrawal.

Iraq War, first one ended in 4 days, 4th largest military in the world defeated.

Afghan police mission, failing due to the countries own corrupt government and the lack of any sort of real society. Most of the country is subsistence farming with a tribal culture, towns rarely have contact with each other.

Iraq War part 2, Iraqi army routed again in short order, unfortunately we disbanded the Iraqi military and so have been rebuilding its security forces from the ground up. Country is a backwards hellhole and can't get it's shit together enough to maintain its own security.


As far as getting raped by partisans, if you check the K:D ratio you will find that the US is never on the losing end of that one =)

[Mgallun74]

Demon, if you knew any better, the loss of Europe to Nazi Germany was directly the fault of the French and British forces not mobilizing sooner, and not going to the aid of countries like Poland.

In fact, Poland held out longer than all of Western Europe. The fought in hopes that Europe would respond to its treaties and come to it's aid, when in fact the rest of Europe was trying to pretend nothing was happening.

Vietnam, French failed first, US tries to help out, people back home get all QQ because its the first real televised war and it people were not ready for the reality. That and a lack of will to just annihilate the North ends in US withdrawal.

Iraq War, first one ended in 4 days, 4th largest military in the world defeated.

Afghan police mission, failing due to the countries own corrupt government and the lack of any sort of real society. Most of the country is subsistence farming with a tribal culture, towns rarely have contact with each other.

Iraq War part 2, Iraqi army routed again in short order, unfortunately we disbanded the Iraqi military and so have been rebuilding its security forces from the ground up. Country is a backwards hellhole and can't get it's shit together enough to maintain its own security.


As far as getting raped by partisans, if you check the K:D ratio you will find that the US is never on the losing end of that one =)

AM pretty much said it all..

[Smokaz]

Didnt you know? Draken fought to the last bullet..

[Mysthalin]

Blame your failures on the afghans and Iraqis! It's usually what you do when you lose a war to the Afghans or Iraqis .

[TheWindCriesMary]

 Lets not also forget that the parameters for "defeat" and "victory" are vastly different for an occupying force and a "insurgent resistance".

 Defeat for the US in Vietnam, and for them in Afghanistan and Iraqi, has thousands more variables than it does for the insurgent forces from those countries.

 For the Taliban, for example, defeat would only come at the complete and utter destruction of their fighting capabilities.

 The US, however, has a far more delicate definition of defeat.

 So using terms like "The US got raped in Vietnam" is childishly ignorant. Technically, the North got raped even harder. Their conditions for victory, however, were far more broad and easily obtained.

 -Wind

[Mysthalin]

So using terms like "The US got raped in Vietnam" is childishly ignorant. Technically, the North got raped even harder. Their conditions for victory, however, were far more broad and easily obtained.

In terms of available firepower, the north raped moar than the US did. Therefore, US raped.

Pew. Pew.

[TheWindCriesMary]

In terms of available firepower, the north raped moar than the US did. Therefore, US raped.

Pew. Pew.

 Based on what mathematics?

 If analyzed by casualties, that doesn't hold up.

-Wind

[Mgallun74]

Based on what mathematics?

 If analyzed by casualties, that doesn't hold up.

-Wind

he doesnt like USA, so thats his logic.

[Illegal_Carrot]

Afghanistan isn't really a failure, though. We took the Taliban out of power in the region, reduced Al-Qaeda to a non-issue and established major footholds in the middle east (which we were lacking). Seeing as country-building will take decades to accomplish, I'm not sure what 'success' you're looking for there.

I agree that Iraq was a fuckup, but again, country-building takes decades, so it'll be a while to determine the actual outcome.

Vietnam was an out-and-out loss, but we fucked that country up so bad that in the end we didn't care if it went communist.

Korea we won.

As for a Korea War II (not that it would ever happen), the war would be an extraordinarily short one. The US, siding with South Korea, would beat back NK forces easily, and China, siding with its greatest economic partner (the US), would also bring down all sorts of hell on the NK. The biggest concern in that war would be potential losses and damages in Seoul.

[Mysthalin]

Have nothing against USA, or peeps from USA. I just like trolling wind.

And cission momplete, Wind posted a two-liner. Therefore troll successful.

[salan]

Also, the french are taking over Canada. True story.

i'll join the anti french movement pretty quick once they start handing out guns!

[Mgallun74]

Have nothing against USA, or peeps from USA. I just like trolling wind.

And cission momplete, Wind posted a two-liner. Therefore troll successful.

Ah, i C

[AmPM]

Salan, we all know that in Canada you aren't allowed to own guns =)

[brn4meplz]

KDR is no longer a valid measuring factor, More then 85% of the enemy combatants in Iraq and Afghanistan are foreign nationals to those countries. In which case you are literally pulling from a global population.

It's all public opinion. the Fallujah operation was canceled by the White house based on incorrect news media that hundreds of civilians were being killed in the fighting. It made them look pretty dumb.

The disbanding of the Iraqi army precipitated the whole event as it negatively impacted the western image and hundreds of thousands of fighting age men hit the streets.

The Taliban is an ideological religious institution. Defeat is only achieved when they all die. Besides the Taliban did alot of good work for Afghanistan in the 90's. They stabilized a region that had been fighting for generations.(Taliban is also a catch all phrase for the Afghanistan situation, it comprises everything from local warlords to Terrorist groups to actual Taliban and drug groups. It's just easier for the western media to label it as one thing)

Having the worlds 4th Largest military doesn;t mean much when a vast portion of it is conscripted. Even the die hards like the Tawakalna were using outdated T-72's against M1A1's and Challengers. Besides Saddam Hussein is also responsible for the worlds largest national literacy rate increase in human history. So he wasn't all bad

[TheWindCriesMary]

Have nothing against USA, or peeps from USA. I just like trolling wind.

And cission momplete, Wind posted a two-liner. Therefore troll successful.

Since all my posts in this thread were short, in order for the troll to be succesful you would have to get me to do the opposite: a very long one.

 Troll fail!

 And I came out of this one right, again, so I win... again.

-Wind

[Lai]

Since all my posts in this thread were short, in order for the troll to be succesful you would have to get me to do the opposite: a very long one.

 Troll fail!

 And I came out of this one right, again, so I win... again.

-Wind

Our feeble minds don't understand. Please be more elaborate in your posts.