I want to play axis elite infantry.. but none can compete..!?!

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[Heartmann]

So that still leaves it at its still possible to do aka you can do it, where as you can one shot a 6 man ranger squad/ab swuad, all suads imo that axis have can be ONE shotted, as for allies they al have such huge inf platforms that its never happens, (At least to my knowledge) and to those comments about fjs, yes they are not main line hard hitting inf, they are the Guerillas of EiR Pop out shot and run away, but since the FING Sprint don't work they are useless as shit now.
(or has that been fixed yet?)

[MultiDoc]

So that still leaves it at its still possible to do aka you can do it, where as you can one shot a 6 man ranger squad/ab swuad, all suads imo that axis have can be ONE shotted, as for allies they al have such huge inf platforms that its never happens, (At least to my knowledge) and to those comments about fjs, yes they are not main line hard hitting inf, they are the Guerillas of EiR Pop out shot and run away, but since the FING Sprint don't work they are useless as shit now.
(or has that been fixed yet?)

Nope, still not working.

And again may i pledge for a reconsideration of the 250munitions cost on the Falls Tank Buster squad ? Please ? Either reduce it or make the 2nd shrek optional as upgrade. 250muni for them is insanely expensive.

[Unkn0wn]

2x Schrecks on Stormtroopers are 300 Mun, so consider yourself lucky.
They get the 'first strike' advantage with camouflage, should make them worth the cost at least.

[smurfORnot]

yea,but storms are much more survivable,also u can get medikits on them +moving cloacked is well worth that 50 manpower and mun cost...

[Illegal_Carrot]

2x Schrecks on Stormtroopers are 300 Mun, so consider yourself lucky.
They get the 'first strike' advantage with camouflage, should make them worth the cost at least.

'Consider yourself lucky' is not at all an argument or explanation, let alone a good one. And obviously they're not worth the cost because everyone's bitching about them.
The 105Mu cost of a single Schreck in the previous Luft doctrine was spot-on. FJs are some of the most munitions-intensive infantry in the game, and requiring someone to give up two full FG42 FJ squads worth of Munitions for a single Tankhunter FJ squad is ridiculous.
The previous Luft doctrine handled AT FJs perfectly: a single Schreck for 105Mu, and no option for a second Schreck. FJ bonuses are nice and all, but they're really nothing that amazing, especially on the already pathetic Panzerschreck. And doubly so for that fact that FJs will still be stuck fighting at long/max range. At least Stormtroopers can cloak to alpha-strike rear armor, which warrants their increased costs.
Any FJ-based AT option needs to act as a deterrent or light-AT, not as main-line, hard-hitting, damage-dealing AT.

[AmPM]

Yes, the FJ tankbusters are a joke, better off buying 2 squads of regular TB's to support your Marder....

[NightRain]

Storms 2x mp44s needs to come down on price 180 muns is wayy too much

[AmPM]

+1, should really be like 140-150.

[smurfORnot]

I think that fj support weapons would be better...since tankbusters are to expensive for what they do,and weaker 88 is nothing  exciting for t3 

[Smokaz]

'Consider yourself lucky' is not at all an argument or explanation, let alone a good one. And obviously they're not worth the cost because everyone's bitching about them.
The 105Mu cost of a single Schreck in the previous Luft doctrine was spot-on. FJs are some of the most munitions-intensive infantry in the game, and requiring someone to give up two full FG42 FJ squads worth of Munitions for a single Tankhunter FJ squad is ridiculous.
The previous Luft doctrine handled AT FJs perfectly: a single Schreck for 105Mu, and no option for a second Schreck. FJ bonuses are nice and all, but they're really nothing that amazing, especially on the already pathetic Panzerschreck. And doubly so for that fact that FJs will still be stuck fighting at long/max range. At least Stormtroopers can cloak to alpha-strike rear armor, which warrants their increased costs.
Any FJ-based AT option needs to act as a deterrent or light-AT, not as main-line, hard-hitting, damage-dealing AT.

As dumb as unknown's arguing is, you and iAMPreMenstrual dont raise much in terms of valid complaints either.

What do you even mean with munitions intensive? FJ's work well without any upgrades, just as good as grens with medikits. They can even get a faust for a cheap, good main line infantry unit. Their regular unupgraded DPS is quite impressive from ambush.

With the right doctrine choices they will be packing 75 HP of airborne armor. Thats pretty good. And if you do intend to spend munitions on them, you have the option to get max value out of your g43s, rifle grenades and panzerbusche at rifles with triple upgrades from Improved Logistiks. And finally PE has a decent eliteish infantry which canfight in smoke cover.

Luft overall is very flexible and strong allowing for a depth of options. SE is way more gimmicky than luft.

The double shrek FSJ I very much look forward to playing with. Shreks aggressively used are moving up, firing the shreks and then falling back, very much like AB. The +25% penetration from ambush means that they will be better against chuchillls and pershings than any other axis infantry handheld AT squad in the game.

The whining from mediocre players like AMPM and yourself is getting ridicolous. This is still a skill based game where the better players win from their actions in the company builder and ingame.  Log off the forum and play some games, post some replays instead of this swansong you guys howl.

[AmPM]

FJ Tankbusters would be fine if they didn't require 250mu to be paid out to use them, 120 or so for a single schrek and able to purchase a second would make the unit far more useful.

Double schrek squads on highly delicate troops that cannot sneak up, cannot Fire Up to GTFO or have any other means of being effective other than sitting and waiting for a unit to drive by is silly.

Especially since FJ already have a tough time fighting off the Allied infantry with the MU they have for AI work already.

[Smokaz]

I think people would disagree that they are highly delicate. Weaker than a AB squad? Maybe. But delicate? Lies.

Also the fact is that sprint is bugged for a lot of units ATM.

My vet 2 tank busters are not getting sprint, and neither are my FSJ. Sprint does repreduce fireup fairly well, more than enough. This might be part of some rework - I dunno. But I expect them to have sprint back soon.

And people fail to consider how expensive the allied elite infantry squads are when they complain about FSJ performance. If they were made much better they would have to go up in price.

[EliteGren]

If you want them to sneak up you can go for the top T4, you have the choice. You can go play Stormtroopers with double schreck, they even cost 50 muni less =)

[panzerman]

sprint will make or brake these guys...

i really need it cause it comes in handy running from hmg's or past them, or out of the way of arty.

with the top and bottom doct t3 they can be really durable esp if u get the medkits.

[AmPM]

If you want them to sneak up you can go for the top T4, you have the choice. You can go play Stormtroopers with double schreck, they even cost 50 muni less =)

Where in the top t4 do they get moving and cloak?

[brn4meplz]

Luftwaffe Tier 4 All FSJ Gain Evasive manouvres FSJ can cloak and move in prone. Does not work on roads

[AmPM]

You do know thats not in the doctrine right?

Evasive Maneuvers -50% cloak delay.

[Smokaz]

Thats two separate buffs. It might be unclear. But evasive maneuvers is a type of ability based on some vcoh campaign thing

[EliteGren]

Yes. -50% cloak delay is to still make using cover viable when you can move around everywhere anyway and get ambush bonuses.

[smurfORnot]

so to have something similiar to storm's ,but still worse,you need t4,t3 and t1 oposed to storm t1...