Brits popping smoke is OP

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[nugnugx]

still, it's always been there. It's been over a full year and no one has ever complained about it.

probably because it was unused on such a scale as now , i don't remember before blobs of constant riflenades popping smoke.

It takes a while for riflenade smoke to really cloud up

in the video it looks like they get the bonus instantly when there is the first 'pop' because everything is missing,  so animation of the cloud doesn't realy matter.

its the blob that makes it crazy not the riflenade itself.

I don't mind people blobbing them, blob 8 if you want,
but i mind popping smoke - like Groundfire said it's an 'portable plasma shield'


Trust me on this one Tym, I wouldn't post an 'op' thread, if something realy wasn't a game changing factor.

[Mysthalin]

2 rifle grenade squads : 510 MP 150 MU, 10 popcap
*4 little clouds of smoke every 60 seconds
*Low damage output
*Swift deployment of smoke

1 mortar and 2 engineer flamers : 570 MP 150 MU, 10 pocap
* 8 big clouds of smoke every 30 seconds
* High damage output at all ranges
* Longer time taken to deploy smoke.

1 mortar and 3 pioneer flamers : 810 MP 230 MU, 10 popcap
*6 massive clouds of smoke every 30 seconds
*Massive damage output at all ranges, high possible effective range.
*Longer time taken to deploy smoke.

So yeah. 3 builds, all reliant on smoke and taking up 10 popcap. I'd say I'm personally far more afraid of the engineer one than I am of the brittish one, and the wehrmacht one is just beyond scary.

[Spartan_Marine88]

2 rifle grenade squads : 510 MP 150 MU, 10 popcap
*4 little clouds of smoke every 60 seconds
*Low damage output
*Swift deployment of smoke

1 mortar and 2 engineer flamers : 570 MP 150 MU, 10 pocap
* 8 big clouds of smoke every 30 seconds
* High damage output at all ranges
* Longer time taken to deploy smoke.

1 mortar and 3 pioneer flamers : 810 MP 230 MU, 10 popcap
*6 massive clouds of smoke every 30 seconds
*Massive damage output at all ranges, high possible effective range.
*Longer time taken to deploy smoke.

So yeah. 3 builds, all reliant on smoke and taking up 10 popcap. I'd say I'm personally far more afraid of the engineer one than I am of the brittish one, and the wehrmacht one is just beyond scary.

Lets not forget the mortar halftrack poping smoke for flamen grens

[nugnugx]

I'll take the personal plasma shield anytime , it does not require me to work with mortar = high mobility, and it is the cheapest option.

*low damage output , this is a good one. Ask any axis what do they think of riflenades. (and real axis , not 'i played 5 games with axis but my main are allies'.

Why would you need flamer engies/pios while in smoke? any decent axis will run away from you and you will have to move away from smoke. With riflenades you just stand and shoot.

[AmPM]

Actually, Groundfire, you sir are a genius.

Why not make Rifle Nade smoke an ability with 2 uses that comes with Rifle Nades?

That would mean you have to be careful about how and when you spam it.

[Groundfire]

I would like that alot if no other solution comes around.

[nugnugx]

Lets not forget the mortar halftrack poping smoke for flamen grens

How many time have you actualy seen someone playing like this now in eir ?

How many times have you seen someone working with mortar to drop smoke on their troops?

and how many times have you seen ( you might not notice this when you play as allies) blobs of pop smoke riflenades


and MHT and mortar does not pop smoke like riflenades.... it does not magicaly arrive over troops in an instant , it drops it on them , it takes time.

[Smokaz]

Im in agreement that the cooldown on the infantry based smoke abilities should be vastly higher than the mortar

[Mysthalin]

*low damage output , this is a good one. Ask any axis what do they think of riflenades

For instance - myself? The guy self-proclaimed to be duke von volk? When volks are easily the most vulnearable to the rifle-grenade of all the axis infantry units in the game?

Does thou smoketh de crack?

Why would you need flamer engies/pios while in smoke? any decent axis will run away from you and you will have to move away from smoke. With riflenades you just stand and shoot.

Any decent axis would just go away from the riflegrenades, or mortar their position with far superior mortars. Or, like, charged them with flamethrowers abusing the tommie's own smoke.

[nugnugx]

For instance - myself? The guy self-proclaimed to be duke von volk? When volks are easily the most vulnearable to the rifle-grenade of all the axis infantry units in the game?

self-proclamation does not work in eir , thuff lyfe

Any decent axis would just go away from the riflegrenades, or mortar their position with far superior mortars. Or, like, charged them with flamethrowers abusing the tommie's own smoke.

you will still get hit by riflenades when running away , and by flamers not.

now you are just theorycrafting adding mortars , flamethrowers etc into a situation.

Balance is not theorycrafting.  

Popping plasma shields is OP compared to other smoke deploying methods? yes? yes.

[kwiatekkek]

Actually, Groundfire, you sir are a genius.

Why not make Rifle Nade smoke an ability with 2 uses that comes with Rifle Nades?

That would mean you have to be careful about how and when you spam it.

+1

[Heartmann]

Actually, Groundfire, you sir are a genius.

Why not make Rifle Nade smoke an ability with 2 uses that comes with Rifle Nades?

That would mean you have to be careful about how and when you spam it.

+1

[Mysthalin]

self-proclamation does not work in eir , thuff lyfe

Screaming something is OP because someone you arbitrarily hold to be a "true axis player" says so doesn't either.

you will still get hit by riflenades when running away , and by flamers not.

At 5 percent accuracy long range and no ability to scatter to the sides? Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're just as likely to be caught up with by flamers as you are to be hit by a singular rifle grenade(disregarding the near impossibility of multiple grenades hitting the same squad). Except the singular rifle grenade will deal far less damage to you than a flamethrower might.

now you are just theorycrafting adding mortars , flamethrowers etc into a situation.

No, I am reminding you of the absolutely massive weaknesses a brit riflegrenade blob suffers from by having to stay in one point to be protected by the puny litle smoke clouds fired from the riflegrenades, as you seem to have conveniently forgotten them all.

Popping plasma shields is OP compared to other smoke deploying methods? yes? yes.

No it isn't. It is higher in popcap, higher in munitions cost, deployed less often and deployed at a far shorter range. Delivery time SHOULD be shorter for those reasons (and you'll still take 7 seconds to deploy the smoke had your rifle-grenades managed to get volley off prior to you using the ability).

[3rdCondor]

Smoke op do you mean Smokaz is op? I would agree that Smokaz is op but I don't see how smoke could be op. Go SE and buy flamegrenadiers.

[Smokaz]

I think it would be better for gameplay if the main source of smoke was the mortars.

[AmPM]

3rdCondor, so you are suggesting, that you need a t3 doctrine unlock as PE to effectively counter smoke....do you see what i wrong with that picture?

If you have to build your company around countering a single unit type something is wrong.

[3rdCondor]

Wehr grenadiers with vanilla nades vs riflenade spam works disgustingly well, I do it all the time. If I can do it, anyone can do it.

Any type of grenade/flameunit or just volks with mp40s should be able to kill rifle nade spam pretty well honestly.

[winisez]

Considering the liberties ( by this I mean beneficial changes to core mechanics with the interest if gameplay in mind) taken thus far in this mod; for example giving brits support weapons, it is somewhat surprisng to me that PE dont have either a ground unit suitable for carrying flamethrowers ( engineer/pioneer equiv) or some sort of flame tank ( croc equiv) or light flame vehicle ( flammen equiv) available without taking a particular doctrine (more on this later).

As for the video posted in this thread, while you are correct that looked horrible, it was essentially a perfect situation for the smoke users, they were in cover, with smoke and a lot of the fire was coming from hotchkiss, which suffer a .5 accuracy modifier while moving...which they were doing a lot of. IMO using this video to claim smoke is broken would be like putting rifles in negative cover 5coh meters infront of an mg42 and watching the unit get wtf pwned and then claiming MG is OP.

What This video does do effectivly is bring up discussion of a lack of proper flame thrower available to PE without investing in 1 doctrine of 3, and then a 1 unlock of 9.


I assume riflenades are brits smoke effective weapon? which if is true, while inferior to flame throwers imo, is at least something. Might also be worth looking into. Though I guess in reflection smoke is less available to axis than allies.

my 2 cents.

[nugnugx]

Screaming something is OP because someone you arbitrarily hold to be a "true axis player" says so doesn't either.

I have proof , made video, and alot of players agree in this thread.

No, I am reminding you of the absolutely massive weaknesses a brit riflegrenade blob suffers from by having to stay in one point to be protected by the puny litle smoke clouds fired from the riflegrenades, as you seem to have conveniently forgotten them all.

you don't have to remind because this is irrelevant theorycrafting ,that has nothing to do with  the ability to pop smoke on demand.

No it isn't. It is higher in popcap

higher popcap , what? you've just stated in your previous post that popcap is the same 10 , make up your mind.

Even if you bring alone mortar which is lower popcap , what will you smoke? empty space? you have to bring inf , which will be higher popcap  than 2 riflenades with plasma shield.

[11on2d6]

cant we take the middle ground and compromise people? rather than just screaming at eachother that you are both correct?

Did you ever stop to consider that perhaps you both have made valid points?