{US} Armor Tier 1 Top Gun

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[NightRain]

A tier 1 that gives FREE .50 Cal for Crocodile Shermans?

Nothing else is the issue but the fact that it is FREE Without costing that 50 munition like M8 and Sherman.

I'd understand if it was Tier 4 as its high tier but the cheapest tier 1 that actually brings a lot of use?

I'm rather unsure what pot or cough medicine was orally digested when this ability was created.

[Artekas]

Doesn't even begin to compete with Blitz's +3 detection range to tanks T1.

[brn4meplz]

Sherman crocs never saw use before. Now they are seeing quite a bit of use. It's a step in the right direction. Whether or not it's going to stay is a different matter entirely. A Range buff to the Sherman croc is also on the table but that'd be stronger then an MG in the right hands.

[Artekas]

It's a step in the COMPLETELY wrong direction, IMO. Making a unit that's useless except for one doctrine with an overpowered ability is not good. You might as well make croc a doctrinal unit.

[NightRain]

Sherman crocs never saw use before. Now they are seeing quite a bit of use. It's a step in the right direction. Whether or not it's going to stay is a different matter entirely. A Range buff to the Sherman croc is also on the table but that'd be stronger then an MG in the right hands.

Mysthalin used to use Crocodile Army quite well. Give them a HMG and now they SUPPRESS the target they intend to kill ENSURING that there's no possible way of escaping other than hitting retreat. Having max 2 crocs still means 100 munitions free. That's nearly a price of a ATG and more than a BAR.

This is absolutely...how can I say it? T1 that gives free stuff, this isn't how EIRR had worked...

[brn4meplz]

The Free MG adds a small measure of damage and suppression. On top of that it doesn't change the role of the unit in anyway. It doesn't suddenly start killing tanks. It's still strictly an Anti-Infantry vehicle.

[NightRain]

The Free MG adds a small measure of damage and suppression. On top of that it doesn't change the role of the unit in anyway. It doesn't suddenly start killing tanks. It's still strictly an Anti-Infantry vehicle.

The MG has miniature penetration vs Light vehicles but either way- it is still FREE resources. For 2 Crocs 100 munitions, for 4 crocs 200 munitions for free. That's the problem here not the unit or the upgrade itself. Just the fact that it comes for 'free'

[Artekas]

If the damage and suppression the .50 cal was "a small measure" nobody would pay 50 munitions for them. You are giving a good 50 munitions upgrade to a unit for free, with a T1. No other t1 except maybe ketten cloak compares.

[NightRain]

And ontop of it the .50 cal is unarguable one of the best tank Top MGs in Company of Heroes.

If it was obsolete none would buy it. Now you get one for free with a Tier 1 on a good platform.

Saying that all you need is a tank to counter it is silly. With the munition saved you can actually field more Anti tank guns to support those crocs of yours, After all you can get max 7 Crocs which means 350 munitions for FREE! That's 3x ATGs munwise...

[Illegal_Carrot]

When I originally came up with the idea for a Croc-mounted MG, I specifically put it into it's own unlock, and it had to be purchased.
An MG on a Croc is more than just a slight damage buff. It deals steady damage to inf, meaning that the Croc will get the crits necessary much sooner and easier. It suppresses, ensuring that its targets have no chance of escape. And it deals damage to light vehicles, which it had no way of even touching before. It's also a ton of free resources, and is going to be taken by literally every Armor player since its a mere T1.
It's much too powerful for a T1 selection, which I originally designed it to not be. Yet it's also not enticing enough to be it's own unlock if you have to pay for it, which is why I stuck it with another, similar buff, and combined it all into a T2.

[Tymathee]

I have to agree here. It's an odd design decision as there's no other weapon unlock that doesn't cost. I thought we were going away from stuff like this.

if ur going to make it like this, at least change it to the halftrack .50 cal taht doesn't suppress as much.

[NightRain]

I have to agree here. It's an odd design decision as there's no other weapon unlock that doesn't cost. I thought we were going away from stuff like this.

if ur going to make it like this, at least change it to the halftrack .50 cal taht doesn't suppress as much.

Rather make it a upgrade that costs munition. Its a tier 1 after all, they are never meant to be something so huge like 50 muns for free

[smurfORnot]

give p4's free tank skirts T1...since they are already weaker than allies counterparts,this way they will have a bit more chance to survive...and u cant put as much of them as crocodiles,so it wont be OP...

[nugnugx]

give p4's free tank skirts T1

that was in eir 0.6 and i think mg 42 was also free with vet 2 , or it was other way around ,  mg vet 1  tank skirts vet 2 , i don't remember anymore.

[AmPM]

Yes, and that was when they were unlocked for purchase. They were never free.

[3rdCondor]

Make it at least 40 munitions.

[NightRain]

Make it at least 40 munitions.

+1

[EliteGren]

You can't make a passive ability cost something. Then it would be an unlock.

[Artekas]

It's not a passive ability, it's an additional weapon the likes of which every other unit has to buy.

If unlocking an MG isn't okay for doctrine specializations, rethink the ability entirely into something less ridiculous.

[EliteGren]

It's a passive ability. The ability will probably be replaced by something else.