[PE] 50mm Hotchkiss

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[smurfORnot]

hmm,maybe we should then just give hotch's stats to m10 if he is so awesome?!

[Tymathee]

i agree with pq, it may need a fuel bump just because of its rof. It doesn't exactly get spammed but because of its low fuel, it can be used along with other supporting units and you can have a ton of at units in ur company. PE can field a ton of AT if used correctly atm.

[11on2d6]

make a carbon copy of the m10 and you can make 220 fuel and id still take it lol.....

besides isnt the thing 8 freaking pop? thats a lot of pop for an AT support unit...esp considering marders are already 50% more pop than regular at guns....

[LeoPhone]

hoch get 2 shotted by atgs u morons. rrs zooks tanks also always hit. useless piece of shit tank. and its french.

[salan]

hoch get 2 shotted by atgs u morons. rrs zooks tanks also always hit. useless piece of shit tank. and its french.

very very true!

[nugnugx]

haven't seen a hotch on my side in 40 games i played, and the last time was in last patch before nerf.

[pqumsieh]

I dont really think all the comments on how most players are noobs and can't micro properly are relevant to balance. the bottom line is, if you know how to play (I know its rare) you can create a whole shit load of rape with this thing. as tym pointed out, all you have to do is support...obviously this is not a unit you send in by itself (as most noobs do) and expect results. Back up your 50mm or infantry pushes and this thing does amazing.

Again, just because you fail with it doesn't mean some people don't. What I want is a state comparison between hotchkiss, tet, 50mm puma, and other similar vehicles.

PQ

[Mysthalin]

50mm Hotchkiss deals 75 damage (requiring 9 hits on the cromwell/sherman to kill).
Tetrarch with LJA deals 65 damage (requiring 9 hits on the P4 to kill).

Both have a total reload of 5.5-6 seconds (taking into account fire-aim times and wind-down).

Penetration of 50mm vs Sherman :

L 0.8
M 0.9
S 1

Penetration of LJA Tetrarch vs P4 :

L 0.83
M 1.05
S 1.2597

There, I compared them for you.

[pqumsieh]

this reminds me of back when, I would post a balance issue, everyone would disagree...so I would abuse the fuk out of it until everyone saw the light. Can we just avoid the hard way and go with the easy way on this one?

PQ

[pqumsieh]

those stats cannot in any way be correct. I am watching a replay right now and the reload is about 2-3 seconds max.

[Spartan_Marine88]

hoch get 2 shotted by atgs u morons. rrs zooks tanks also always hit. useless piece of shit tank. and its french.

The very fact that you call it useless means its fucking awesome.

[LeoPhone]

this reminds me of back when, I would post a balance issue, everyone would disagree...so I would abuse the fuk out of it until everyone saw the light. Can we just avoid the hard way and go with the easy way on this one?

PQ

are we supposed to agree with you now?

tet also has awesome m8 dodge armor instead of magnet stuart armor hoch has.

[pqumsieh]

you dont have to agree with me now, but you will agree with me soon enough

PQ

[Spartan_Marine88]

you dont have to agree with me now, but you will agree with me soon enough

PQ

Its funny because everyone said how shit hotchkisses were back before the wipe, but the 3 people who played hotch spam were next to unbeatable.

[LeoPhone]

50mm Hotchkiss deals 75 damage (requiring 9 hits on the cromwell/sherman to kill).
Tetrarch with LJA deals 65 damage (requiring 9 hits on the P4 to kill).

Both have a total reload of 5.5-6 seconds (taking into account fire-aim times and wind-down).

Penetration of 50mm vs Sherman :

L 0.8
M 0.9
S 1

Penetration of LJA Tetrarch vs P4 :

L 0.83
M 1.05
S 1.2597

There, I compared them for you.

hoch reloads only after 2 shots fired. cooldown + wind down = 2.3 s, reload + wind down = 4.75s. average rof = 3.5s

[Mysthalin]

It depends entirely on how fire-aim time operates(which is obnoxiously inconsistent and therefore lends extreme ammounts of ambiguity).

If it is applied only when a target is first selected - then after the first shot the Hotch will have 4-4.5 reload. If it is applied each time the hotch re-aquires it's target, keep the 5.5-6. reload time every time the hotch loses track of the enemy and starts aiming at it again(or switches targets).

What the hell are you even on about leo? The cooldown doesn't apply to the hotch properly at all, it's a single-shot weapon. If you're reffering to the reload frequency being 1 instead of 0 - the tetsie has that as well.

[pqumsieh]

im telling you myst, i watched the replay many times and that thing is not reloading at 5-6 seconds. At least not from what I can tell. Also, the upgun tet does not seem to penetrate a P4 IST as often as the statistics would dictate. 83% pen at long range is no where near my experience, its more around 40%. Perhaps the upgun tet stats aren't being applied correctly?

PQ

[Mysthalin]

They are. The only explanation I can give you is that the tetrarch did not have the LJA purchased.

[LeoPhone]

i could swear the hoch is indeed double shotting and then reloading like the t17 does.

but if u say it are "inconsistencies" myst, so be it :S

edit: and actually it does. t17 also has a 1 at reload. it reloads after 2 shots.

edit2: but churchill has 1 there too? wtf. myst explain now pl0x

[Mysthalin]

i could swear the hoch is indeed double shotting and then reloading like the t17 does.

but if u say it are "inconsistencies" myst, so be it :S

Well I'm not entirely sure myself. It could be the ready-aim time being fiddly(Tetrarch has 0 ready-aim time, while T17 has the same ready-aim time as the hotch), or it could be double shooting(but then the tetrarch would double-shoot in the exact same way).

Or it could be a little bit of both :S.

EDIT. By fire-aim time I meant ready-aim time in all my posts.