Da dup da da da rup ta ta - ta la la (etc carnival music)

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[ErwinNH]

I blame groundfire - obviously advertisements for EIRR these days portray a erratic view of the gameplay. That's what you get for including no scenes of:

- Soi, David and EvilCrocGuy12 parading 2 crocs and five 57mms around
- Kwiatek's munitions HT saturation minefield spam
- Blobs of FSJ
- Blobs of AB
- Wind's crocodile churchills
- Myst spamming volks, spamming 50mms and ISTs

Obviously they are just showing the newcomers beautiful pictures of a mg42 watching the horizon.

tbh spam companies are far more fun to design and make than a balanced company.

Two great juxtaposing quotes. So the question is: who is the game designed for? I think it's clear from the design team's statements that bizzaro-spam is not the intent of the mod. But if that is true, why did you allow your community to get filled with Royals, 11ond2d6s, speigas, Mysthalins, all the people referenced by Smokaz, and whoever else enjoys gimmicks more than games. You can't have both. But by letting this gimmicky stuff go on for this long you've molded your community into a corner. The spammers are dominant of the two groups for obvious reasons, they're abusing the design of the game for power and nobody can do much about it other than gimmick back (counter-intuitive). By not coming down hard on the mentioned, you came down hard on everybody else and the intent of your mod as a result.

[shockcoil]

I think that's a declaration of war guys

[3rdCondor]

....

.......

........

..... shouldn't you just...

..... leave the mod?

[ErwinNH]

....

.......

........

..... shouldn't you just...

..... leave the mod?

......I

...don't....

......know..

Should... I?

That... is... the ..

.... question.

[Groundfire]

I blame groundfire - obviously advertisements for EIRR these days portray a erratic view of the gameplay. That's what you get for including no scenes of:

- Soi, David and EvilCrocGuy12 parading 2 crocs and five 57mms around
- Kwiatek's munitions HT saturation minefield spam
- Blobs of FSJ
- Blobs of AB
- Wind's crocodile churchills
- Myst spamming volks, spamming 50mms and ISTs

Obviously they are just showing the newcomers beautiful pictures of a mg42 watching the horizon.

Balanced games come from no skill disparity, which are what my shoutcasts are over.

Wonder what happens when good players get bored and theres a large skill disparity within the mod?

Herp deDerp

[3rdCondor]

Groundfire! It's your fault I chose Life cereal this morning! I had a choice between frosted flakes and life. Sure life cereal has a great taste and goes well with milk, but you should have told me to go with frosted flakes. Frosted flakes are waaay (vowels overused for emphasis) more delicious, but you made me believe that Life was sweeter! How dare you! Damn the developers! Damn them to hell!

[spinn72]

Look at it this way.

The best players in the mod would beat you anyway, but now they do it in a hilarious way that makes it fun to watch.
There is a large skill disparity, but then again, you either have the choice of a game or no game. Comparing EIRR to vCoH, i'd say this is less spammy. Also, if you unlock Churchill crocs, why would you use any less than 4? They're perfect AI and AT!

Whoever said EIRR isn't balanced at the moment obviously doesn't play enough -- AB doctrine is perfectly balanced at the moment with the exception of the sniper  , and that's more than anyone could hope for!

[ErwinNH]

Look at it this way.

The best players in the mod would beat you anyway, but now they do it in a hilarious way that makes it fun to watch.
There is a large skill disparity, but then again, you either have the choice of a game or no game. Comparing EIRR to vCoH, i'd say this is less spammy. Also, if you unlock Churchill crocs, why would you use any less than 4? They're perfect AI and AT!

Whoever said EIRR isn't balanced at the moment obviously doesn't play enough -- AB doctrine is perfectly balanced at the moment with the exception of the sniper  , and that's more than anyone could hope for!

Interesting. People like this guy act like Groundfire didn't say: "The issue with spam..." So.. there's an issue? With spam you say? Soo.. when are people like spin72 going to quit pretending that the mod's designers didn't say that?

Na i'm pretty confident in my play spin. I could compete with the "better players." But "better players" has come to mean spammers, for all the reasons you ignored in the previous posts.



 

[11on2d6]

what is spam erwin? is it defined differently depending on the unit at hand? can you tell me why spam creates a problem? except for the fact that it beat you ( obviously). Surely is som1 has all 1 of type of unit, it is countered by the same thing? doesnt sound hard to me.

[Malgoroth]

The EIRR community.... I honestly don't know what to think of it sometimes.

[arsonist123]

....

.......

........

..... shouldn't you just...

..... leave the mod?

Dude fuck off you cunt, thats not a helpful post.
orginally i wrote something but...

[Heartmann]

Spam in itself is not hard to counter, its when firstly used well by players who know what the counters are to that spam, and are still able to counter them, often by the help of other team mates.

Best way to illustrate this is by saying, lets have a stick fight, and 1 person brings spearheads. NOW in itself a spearhead is almost useless, sure its sharper than a stick and yea u can stab someone, but a stick has a longer reach and is more versatile, BUT When you use your team mates sticks and put your spearhead on those.... well then is when you got the problem ^^

For those of you who are a bit slow the spearhead is the spam coy ^^

[Spartan_Marine88]

Spam in itself is not hard to counter, its when firstly used well by players who know what the counters are to that spam, and are still able to counter them, often by the help of other team mates.

Best way to illustrate this is by saying, lets have a stick fight, and 1 person brings spearheads. NOW in itself a spearhead is almost useless, sure its sharper than a stick and yea u can stab someone, but a stick has a longer reach and is more versatile, BUT When you use your team mates sticks and put your spearhead on those.... well then is when you got the problem ^^

For those of you who are a bit slow the spearhead is the spam coy ^^

To stick with that allegory, a spear can be countered by a well balanced sword (aka standard company). As the spears greatest strength is its greatest weakness. Once you get in and under the spear using your sword work, you can make a quick and easy kill. While alot of people may say that there teamates can make up for the inherent weakness of the 'spear', you got teamates too!

It comes down to who out plays, put micros and out teamworks the other team. But the greatest failing of EIR is when a team who isn't speaking on vent gets hammered by a team who is on vent together and utilising the spam company or is just outplayed. The non-team team will blame the spam company and post all about it on the forums.

Another example, i could bitch and whine that my oponents a couple games ago destroyed my team and i with a late game callin of an IST and a Tiger and blame it on the fact that it was the Hetzer spam also in the game, but the fact was that the amazing teamwork between the IST and the Tiger caught us off guard and rolled us with some very clever microing and teamwork.

[11on2d6]

After you calm down and think about it, all games are lost due to you either getting out played, or not working as well with your team.

This was not always the case when we had t4's like subversion and Raidassault, but those are gone, there is nothing currently so game breaking that cant be countered with skill.

[ErwinNH]

what is spam erwin? is it defined differently depending on the unit at hand? can you tell me why spam creates a problem? except for the fact that it beat you ( obviously). Surely is som1 has all 1 of type of unit, it is countered by the same thing? doesnt sound hard to me.

Sure can. Heartmann did a pretty good job 2 posts ago, but my version is this:  when you purposely make half of an enemy's company useless by avoiding any units in your company that could be countered by those units. So for a hypothetical example: A company with 6 stormtroopers: 3x shrek and 3x assault vs a company that has 1x ATG, 1x Sherman, 1x rifle, 1 MG, 1 mortar. This example is arbitrary of course, but the idea is clear. Only the MG is a true counter, maybe the mortar if the sturms are dumb enough to all get caught and suppressed in 1 place, and maybe the sherman if it had a 50 on it. The PE player clearly abused his ability to stack storms in his coy (in this example) so that any balanced company he faced would consist, practically speaking, of only half the useful strength of his. Because no one can know what somebody has in their coy, it becomes a guessing game.

"OoOo, I'm up against Sp4mP00p0n00bsIh4v3iSSueS3000. He likes to spam m8s. But he knows I know he knows so maybe he's spamming riflemen now. Lemme dump my 30 ATHT for 20 IST. Yea." <--- for those who can't recognize hyperbole, i'm pointing it out for you with a red arrow

And then all the spammers clamor into the thread and claim it was micro. It was pure pwn. It had nothing to do with my weaksauce antics. And its hilarious that people still are completely ignoring the fact that the devs say:

The spam issue will be addressed....

Instead spammers are like *jedi hand wave* it wasn't the spam it was that you're noob and I have l33t skillz! There is no spam problem. This is not the spam problem you're looking for.

[11on2d6]

so if I bring 0 tanks and you bring 7 atg's im a spammer and should be punished? To me thats just playing the meta, people cant afford to not bring atg's, so you capitalise on this weakness, ofc you then suffer due to not having any tanks, which are handy for so many different things.

Its company design, the whole reason we are allowed to customise our companies is to create what we want, if everyone had to have the same standard company with 14 volks, 3 mgs, 4 paks 2 ostwinds and 3 p4's/.... this mod would be shit. Its the creativity this mod that stems from customisable armies and doctrines that makes his mod great.  You got owned, by someone exploitng a weakness of your company, learn from it, adapt your company to have less weaknesses, dont just cry and give up.

[Demon767]

6 stormtroopers are spam?

you dumb shit. a sherman, Atg, Rifle, MG, Mortar Will destroy a 6 storm trooper spam, at a much lower cost to Mu and infantry pool.

[Groundfire]

Look here's how it is,

Every time we allow people start a new company with PPs, your always going to have that handful of asshats that get board and create bullshit companies on a whim because they can bypass the PP sink. We did this for the campaign and also before with end war testing and it nearly killed the mod.

The PP sink is also further gone now that you do not have to pay SPs for vet, freeing up more PP.

This is also exaserbated by the new doctrines (some of the new units im personally facepalming over) and the fact that the availability pool system is an imperfect system that is missing certain restrictions in light of the restructuring for the warmap. It hasnt been touched since it's inception because it was supposed to be a temp system till the warmap.

Yes, some spam is company innovation and some is just bad players allowing a handful of units to wrack up immense amount of kills, mistaking a handful of units to be more than there are, but there's also spam that is allowed to endemically exist within the system now that we have removed the PP sink, it's too powerful and will be dealt with.

Everything is being restructured by the warmap so just sit tight and Try Not to Piss Eachother OFF

[ErwinNH]

so if I bring 0 tanks and you bring 7 atg's im a spammer and should be punished? To me thats just playing the meta, people cant afford to not bring atg's, so you capitalise on this weakness, ofc you then suffer due to not having any tanks, which are handy for so many different things.

Its company design, the whole reason we are allowed to customise our companies is to create what we want, if everyone had to have the same standard company with 14 volks, 3 mgs, 4 paks 2 ostwinds and 3 p4's/.... this mod would be shit. Its the creativity this mod that stems from customisable armies and doctrines that makes his mod great.  You got owned, by someone exploitng a weakness of your company, learn from it, adapt your company to have less weaknesses, dont just cry and give up.

I'm sorry you're confused. I don't think we'll be able to agree on terms. Have a good one.

6 stormtroopers are spam?

you dumb shit. a sherman, Atg, Rifle, MG, Mortar Will destroy a 6 storm trooper spam, at a much lower cost to Mu and infantry pool.

I'm sorry you also couldn't understand the hypothetical situation. The hypothetical situation was that those were all the units in the whole company. Rather than me listing 5000 manpower worth of units etc, i just narrowed it down to an inf only company and a mixed company, each with ~ 6 units. If it doesn't suit your imagination well enough to where you can relate it to a spam game you've experienced, then I am sorry I have failed you and I can understand why you'd be so upset.

[Demon767]

Erwin, there is not enough innovation in the system for you to build your company. The current system is flawed like that. theres not much flashy stuff. Theres nothing in EIRR that makes you fully immersed in your company alrighty. Nothing. That is one reason why there is spam. people get bored.

Before thinking about takign a break from EIRR because of the spam i will give you some advice

"Knowing your enemy is half the battle"

You know they Spam LV's. Build a counter company, before you say anything, of course you shouldnt have to build counter companys. i agree. Anyways its very rewarding when the gimmicker stars QQ over you purposely ruining his griefing fun, by griefing his company build by purposly buying more Shreks and AT units. I cant tell you how rewarding that was when he's all like. YOU SUCK YOU NO SKIL YOU COUNTER COMPANY ME blah blah blah hahaha

His strategy was so very linear, he spammed LV's with his Team mate, so imagine the whole field with m8's - 1 sherman and 1 ATG. WHen that failed, he spammed 2 atgs with rifles, when that failed he spammed LV AND SO ON. *facepalm* no skill at all. Seriously try counter companying, its such a rewarding feeling whne you are actually prepared for the company, its easy.