PE at vs Pershing and Churchill armor types

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[Smokaz]

Non-doctrinally I believe this is not good enough. The pak performs only acceptable against these, and the panzershrek struggles. Marders and 50mms are TOO poor against these tanks. Especially marders need to be looked at because they need to fill the role of a heavy long range AT role.

Who agrees?

[Artekas]

I've been saying this for a while now, 33% chance to penetrate and 35% deflection multiplier with the primary AT option is just bleh. And nothing else can do the job. Panzershrecks vs Pershing is a waste of time and resources, 50mm fails similar to Marder, Hotchkiss used to be good but then got nerfed. That just leaves the Panther... which works okay but kind of unfair to force PE into using it, and even that won't work if the Pershing is doctrinally buffed. HVAP will really hurt, and even wiithout HVAP double repairs will make Pershings outlast the Panthers which get not a single buff in any doctrine.

[Scotzmen]

There heavy armour.

Technically a churchhills armour was alot thicker than a tiger tanks. Its only flaw was that the armour wasnt slopped like most tanks. It was a metal box on wheels.

You know what does work? Panzerfausts.

A pershing is heavy armour its sopposed to make paks only acceptable. Id be pretty pissed if they were good. i'd forget about tanks completly

[smurfORnot]

played yesterday against pershing start,and he had HE to have things even more fun...wasn't fun at all,generic PE can't do shit to them,if u have pershing backed up by 1-2 atg-s PE probably wont be able to do shit to that...

[NightRain]

There heavy armour.

Technically a churchhills armour was alot thicker than a tiger tanks. Its only flaw was that the armour wasnt slopped like most tanks. It was a metal box on wheels.

You know what does work? Panzerfausts.

A pershing is heavy armour its sopposed to make paks only acceptable. Id be pretty pissed if they were good. i'd forget about tanks completly

Realism < Gameplay

Panzerfaust NOT RELIABLE AT.

PE has nothing vs Churchill spam and Pershing companies in short unless 80% of their fuel is invested into anti tank. Or forced to have JagdPanther and or hetzers which means at least 50% fuel investment on a single unit that will be chased off by ATGs and infantry that comes with the churchill/Pershing

[Artekas]

There's a difference between heavy armour, and INVINCIBLE armour. Wehr is in a fine position against Pershings, it's tough to deal with them but doable. Against PE, Pershings might as well have 9000 HP. PE doesn't even have Panzerfausts, so I don't know what you're getting at there, and besides it's pretty fucking hard to Panzerfaust a well-used Pershing.

And then there's Crocodiles, which totally rape everything PE has. It kills every AT option except for Panthers and Hotchkiss pairs (both 15+ pop) without even taking too much damage with Hull Down and other doctrinal buffs.

[8thRifleRegiment]

yea against generic PE player, example myself, i use my SE doctrine i have 4 marders and 2 shrecks thats all my AT, the pershing usually comes out at the time i useually have two marders left and atleast 1 shreck, if the pershing is supported by atgs, which it usaally is, what am i supposed to do to that lmao. i roll up my marder to kill the pershing, even tho it can hardley penetrate especilly with vet and doc bonuses, and he gets instasniped by his atgs and any attempt to rush the atgs with my Pgs get owned by his pershing who insta gibs 1/2 of a sqaud with 1 shot.

Its just simply too hard to counter a stable armor company as PE, marders need some serious looking into.

[smurfORnot]

give em pak40 gun which they had in real...

[Artekas]

herpderp

realism has nothing to do with the game

also marders with PaK40s would be ridiculous powerful

[smurfORnot]

and that would be so bad why,cuz it would make em tank destroyers?

I would gladly pay more for marder it he actually did role he was intended...

[Artekas]

let's give StuGs the same gun as the FlaK 36 so they can be tank destroyers?

PaK40s are already very strong, giving them on a nondoctrinal platform with Lockdown is way overboard and PE will have ridiculously overpowered AT. The Jagdpanther would be basically pointless.

[smurfORnot]

ok,so you sugest then what? since vanilla PE has no effective way to deal with heavy allied tanks....play it and see how fun is it when u face it 

it doesnt need to be as strong as pak 40 is,but marder has shitty gun against anithing heavyer than sherman,so does 50mm...

[CrazyWR]

jesus christ people...PE AT works fine.  l2p...2 marders > 1 pershing anytime.  Use 1 marder supported by a second half a screen away, and BAM, CRIPPLED OR DEAD PERSHING.  Its not complicated...50mms will bounce off the heavy armor, but marders wont bounce nearly as often...and if you're really having trouble, go tank hunters and get a jagd or a teller mine or luft and falls tankbusters and pop up from behind...

[Artekas]

Did you even read my posts in this thread? I already said that I've thought that PE AT needs a buff, and I've been making posts here and there about it for about a month too. But just because PE AT is UP doesn't mean we need to go and do something that would make it OP.

Also lol @ the l2p argument that involves theorycrafting.

[Mysthalin]

I just think 50mm pathing needs to be fixed, then PE AT would be perfectly adequate.

[smurfORnot]

and then u have atleast 1 atg with that persh,and u can say bye bye to those 2 marder's  

would pak40 make them overpovered if price was higer? I dont say u need to make em goodly or OP,they are quite cheap...but to have upgrade version for some kind of better gun,dmg is quite fine,but it you could upgrade it whit better penetration or something like that...

[CrazyWR]

I just think 50mm pathing needs to be fixed, then PE AT would be perfectly adequate.

seconded

[spinn72]

PE are fine, you just need to utilize something other than direct damage, eg. LAT HT's or Muni ht's with mines for 25mu. Marders once sited seem to have higher pen, and it's not an issue.

That's just my opinion though, if it were up to you, how would you think about balancing PE if you were a mod?

[11on2d6]

Non-doctrinally I believe this is not good enough. The pak performs only acceptable against these, and the panzershrek struggles. Marders and 50mms are TOO poor against these tanks. Especially marders need to be looked at because they need to fill the role of a heavy long range AT role.

Who agrees?

+43

Ive been saying PE no doctrine AT isnt good enough for ages, but everyone just calls me a nub.

This is further compounded by the fact that ALL PE at is countered from long range by Anti tank guns, because it is all vheicle mounted, meaning the PE atgs cant hit the allied ones for shit,  but the allied ones 2-3 shot the PE ones. Stupid.

Improving the 50mm hotchkiss to be an Anti tank unit worth its 8 pop on the field would go a long way to fixing this, even if it meant raising the Pop cap. Keep in mind an m10/hell cat is only 10 pop, both are much much better at tank hunting.

[Illegal_Carrot]

The issue isn't PE's lack of AT options; I believe the Marder and 50mm are adequate, seeing as the Pershing is the toughest vehicle any Allied player can get.

The issue comes from PE's inability to support their own assets.

If that Pershing is accompanied by even a single ATG, the 50mm and Marder are basically negated. Pershings and ATGs two-shot HTs and three-shot Marders, making it impossible to deal any real damage. If you Site Main Gun with the Marder, you're immobile, which means a dead Marder. If you move up any sort of vehicle, it's dead in seconds. Any infantry can easily get wiped in two shots form the Pershing. Mortar HTs are often ineffective with their short range and poor accuracy, and are more of a liability than an asset vs mobile AT infantry (RRs/Zooks/AT Rifles/Stickies), which will ruin your day in mere seconds.

But this has been a huge issue for a long while. Many people, including myself, have been trying to call attention to it, but nothing's ever gotten done about it. Hopefully Smokaz's voice will finally mean something in the matter.