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Author Topic: Luft 'guide'  (Read 12461 times)
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smurfORnot Offline
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Posts: 4715



« on: January 07, 2011, 06:31:59 am »

I am feeling a bit bored,so why not write a little guide about luft to help new players who want to play it,it would be nice if other experianced players wrote guides about other faction's and what 'good builds' are for them,so newbs have easier time making choices.

First of all,this is my point of view ,and not everyone will probably agree whith my opinions.I consider myself to be 'quite good' with luft(but far from expert),curently it's my favorite doc,and 7th(Heartmann) can write down his experiance since he went for different buildt than me.


Lets start with bottom choices: u have 8 points

T1

Luftwaffe forces
obviously u want Luftwaffe forces,because u get falls there,and that's main reason why you want to play luft  Grin
you also get luftwaffe ground forces,withouth upgrades dont expect them to do much,they preety much die like flies,but are inexpensive,and u get 5 of them,so they are very good for recrew since u can recrew 2 things with 1 unit. I only use them for that,never as a fight force unless I need to,so when you need that at gun or mg recrewed,call em. They can get some upgrades,but still,they dont shine that much.

now Falls,bread and butter of luft doctrine,now they are one of my favourite,if not most favorite axis infantry. They are so versatile and have great unlocks and buffs for them! Vanilla u have option to get fg42,faust and anty building inc nade..
fg42 is quite good,for 120mun all 4 of them get it,and becomes even better if you have covering fire for it,which works like bar supression,but doesnt supress that fast,at closer range it supresses much faster than at long. It's good at close and medium range.against rifles and tommies it's best to engage at close range,since it eats them fast,but against elite inf like comandos and rangers with thompsons,engage from as far as u can,since up close,they eat falls,unless they are supresses.
I like to have faust on most of my falls units,since they are quite handy to finish off those almost dead tanks,help against LV,and if lucky can get eng. dmg...you can also fire it behind hedges and buildings(doesnt work always,sometimes it passes through,sometimes not)
Anty building inc nade,more or less useless,I mean it's handy to have 1-2,it almost doesnt dmg troops,and when you throw it at implacments/triages it also has tendency to miss shit entirely...and I dont like to suicide falls like dropping them by emplacment and throwing that nade in hope that it will kill it,I havent rly tested it much.

Aerial scout
Recon plane,handy if u want it,but there are better choiches.

Anty tank supplies
Quite good,slow mines are good when placed on strategical places,and help your marder's 50mm not to get circled,and anty tank rifles are also good especially with Improved logistic(+1), 1-2 falls with these will kill any LV rly fast,but wont do much against tanks,so they are good for marder support.

T2

Light AA
mg34 is good,not too expensive,cloacks in cover,and when few bugs are fixed will be great...and since you dont have any other mg avaiable,it's handy to have few against blobs...
Wirblevind on other hand is not,costs 140 fuel what is a lot for unit that is so mediocre,for 65 more fuel u get IST that is beast compared to wirblevind. He supresses, but kill slow,and to unit's in buildings it almost doesnt do anything,untill he gets buffed(if he gets) it's just better to stay away from him,maybe only 1 if u rly want him that bad,good things is,sometimes you will shoot down a plane.
3 at gun shots and he's down,and since he doesnt move fast,and at long range doesnt do much,if u get close,bam,you will be kitted with that at gun,and if u stay at range you dont do shit...

Butterfly bombs
havent tested those,but since u can get better choices,I stayed away from them. Ff u get them,dont drop them on enemy,since they will shot them down if they see em falling from skies. Someone who used them,might add his experiance.

Aerial supply crates
u get g43 for falls and ground forces,not big fan of those,but yea,they can be handy against those charging rangers,and slowing some shit down to kill it. They can work well together with rifle nades to slow enemy,but I usually like to have mg and/or fg42 with covering fire for that.

rifle nades,withouth uber medikits you cant just pop force field around you and charge across field with fg42 and kill everything,so you have to adopt. Rifle nades are great,and if u use them,try to get that T3 Improved logistic. Having 2 falls units with 6 rifle nades is great,they dont kill that fast and arent very acurate,but are great against blobs,since they have quite good dmg and and since there is a blob,you will hit something  Grin . Also since they fire behind hedges and buildings(sometimes they hit building) ,and on the move,you just keep moving and iritate enemy,slowly killing him,use terrain to your advantage,and engage from distance...you also get smoke,handy,but dissapears fast,so you can't stay in there for long or smoke that mg for long.

tactic tip:they are good for luring enemy into mg/fg42 ambush,since they are sucky at close range,and enemy will rip u apart,he will want to close in on you,because at range he is at disadvantage. So when you have 'scout training' just pop medikit and stay at long range,you will survive without a problem,move around and make him come to you,then just move back to that mg/fg42 in ambush,and finish him off.

T3

Field medicine
Get it! one of the best thing's u can get for your falls. They aren bugged any more,and work much like wehr medikit(not sure how much do they heal now is it 0.96 hp/sec),but still you should get em,for 50mun oyu get 3 boxes(sometimes 4-6  Roll Eyes ) which you drop on battlefield and in each there are 3 medikits I think(dont pay all that much attention,since 1 drop can last you for almost whole game. They prolonge lifespam of your falls so much more,many times it will happend that you have 3-4 members alive but with very low health,and if you cant heal them,in next engagment they will die in seconds. Each medikit gets you 2 uses,and after u used it,just go back and pick another one.
but remembre,you have to drop it close to spawn,since battlefield constantly moves,there is good chance that enemy will pick em up for you if you drop them close to main line,that also means that you have to drop your falls close to spawn,but they survive much more with them,so it's well worth it!

Panzerknacker
2 planes come and fire rockets at tanks,very handy if u get sudenly overhelmed  by tanks or LV's,but u need to have sight in order to work properly,otherwise they will miss. It's also very good to have cloacked ketten,then search for that tanks that is repairing,pop it and kill it. There is also good chance that rocked will cause eng dmg...plane wont kill full health tank,but it usually kills dmg one...

Anty tank experts
least usefull T3 in my opinion,you get 88 with a bit less health,but a bike sight...
falls tankbusters,for 250mun they are rly expensive,but good if u put em in halftrack,but I like to have as much mun as I can get for my falls with fg42 and riflenades etc.
flakvierling,tryed it few times ,didnt like it. It might come as nice support for 88,but since there is so much arty,you wont do much. It's just better to have more mobile force ,than stationary one.


Upper tree:

T1
just get it since u have points,but almost no games are R+ now.

T2
nothing special here,wirblewind gets small buff,but usually u dont want him imobile,because enemy rarely doesnt have that at gun.
small buff for IST
and extra acc from building,won't complain about that.

T3
medikits heal 20% faster and longer,which is nice,but I prefere not to have move penalty while using them from scout training
luft inf gain ambush,maybe a bit useful when they get that free fg42 from T4,but they dont do all that much so.
and few buffs for falls in cover.

T4
I rly like this T4,but since rest of the tree is kinda meh,and I find more buffs for other 2 T3's I didnt go for this one
33% acc from cover is nice
evasive manouevers are great,you can move while cloacked,but you crawl,don't walk,so it is good for geting behind and around enemy Wink
free fg42 for luft inf leader is nice,but again,you probably wanna use them mainly for recrew,not to fight,falls are much better for that,and well worth that extra 70mp.

7Th might write more about this one,since he went that way,and is quite good.

Middle tree:

T1
 it's nice to be able to cloack at guns Wink

T2
nothing special,but it's nice for falls to sometimes build themself cover when you dont have one to cloack. Only problem is,enemy fires at that cover automatically,hope it will get fixed,but they build it fast.

T3
great - fg42 gains covering fire which is rly good! and you get +1 on riflenades,g43 and at rifles,and more medikits ,so yeah,I quite like this T3.

T4
 not bad,but not that great also,+6 pop is nice,offmaps are also nice,but you will probably only get panzerknacker or butterlfy bombs,so you dont benefit that much.
faust recharge is good,wirblevind becomes better,so does 88 and flakvierling,but since you get bonuses for quite a bit of stuff,that means that half of the stuff you cant use,if you go for flaks and wirblewind,that means you dont have points for offmaps,and vice versa.
light at gains hetzer ambush,nothing to exciting here.
I would rather go for bottom T3 than this T4.

Bottom tree :

T1
cloacked ketten is great,always have 1-2 for scouting and spotting Wink

T2
ketten becomes even better with extra sight,since base sight is sucky.
it's nice to have marder lockdown more sight,but they are not ment to be on first lines,so you only benefit if you go after that wounded tank and lock down to finish it.
flares are nice on vampire,but you have ketten for scouting which is better.

T3
Scout training
very good T3 for heavy falls force. Ab armor isnt much improvment over soldier one,but ok.
+15hp per falls membre is very good(60 extra health for unit is nice),and luft inf get +5hp,which you dont notice,since they die like flies,lol.
you also get +5sec slow/covering fire which is nice,and medikits dont have slow penalty,which is great,because you can pop them in combat for that bit extra healing withouth any penalty
you get +5 sight for falls and luft inf which is not big improvment,you almost dont notice it,but it's ok
and if you use riflenades,you can almost instantly drop smoke around yourself,which is handy.
so yeah,great T3!

T4
hotch gets puma armor so becomes better,but I dont use them so. Recharge on sprint is nice,dont know how that passive sprint on inf works,is it also for falls,or only for pzgrens,and speed buffs for vehichles are nice. But I would rather go for middle T3 than this T4 if you plan to have heavy falls force.


So for choiches it best to for either for top T4 or middle and bottom T3's..but you can go for T4's if u like em.

Bottom choices are
Lufftwafe forces,and then I like either medikits+panzerknacker+at supplies for more at power or medikits+light AA + supply crates(so you can have those falls with rifle nades ,suported with mg's when enemy comes after you) for more ai power...
you can experiment with your choices,but I found for these ones to work quite good

for AT I almost only use marders,since they only cost 30mun for repair and you can have all that mun for your falls,you can get few 50mm's depending about how much mun you can spare,since they will cost you 135mun each.
but that's me,I play elite army of almost only falls backed up by marders and some 50mm,with some luft inf for recrew,and it works quite well,one of my favorite axis company's so far!


few falls videos,to get you in the mode  Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hURjXxbyQ9k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Fdt_QrVnw&feature=related

« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 08:52:41 am by smurfORnot » Logged
EliteGren Offline
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Posts: 6106


« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2011, 06:41:05 am »

The luft 88 having no shield is just cosmetic, it doesn't actually make it weaper. The base gun has a little bit less health though (50?) but bike sight range.
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i prefer to no u
Don't knock it til uve tried it bitchface, this isn't anything like salads version. Besides u said a semois conversion would never work, now look that's the most played map, ohgodwhy.jpg r u map lead
smurfORnot Offline
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Posts: 4715



« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2011, 07:27:14 am »

few tips on falls tactics...they are like guerilla force...small, but deadly...and you should play them like that...

u have to be sneaky,if u have fg42,lay down an ambush,wait in cover,concealed,untill enemy comes to u,dont charge across the open unless u have to,or you can flank them,because if u stumble across mg or bar supresses you,you are in trouble,since you cant escape it...
with rifle nades and g43,engage from distance,if enemy comes to u,move back...

always have that marder/50mm or 2 to support u...

when ever u can,try to make enemy come to u,not u to him(unless he has weak inf,no support etc.)
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Tymathee Offline
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2011, 07:41:47 am »

guide to play against luft? arty the **** out of them
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NightRain Offline
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Posts: 3908



« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2011, 08:13:25 am »

guide vs luft. LV Spam them, they got shit vs them. Spam Shermans and BARs vs them, or LVs and thompsons. Dual Pershing company coupled with ATGs or Boys AT rifles.
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EliteGren Offline
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Posts: 6106


« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2011, 08:14:42 am »

?

Bar has a 0.4 damage modifer vs soldier armor which makes it hilariously bad against PE. The triple luft AT rifles shred M8s and T17s pretty good.
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Grundwaffe Offline
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2011, 09:04:33 am »

If you guys want to talk about how to beat luft, make a own damn thread Tongue
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smurfORnot Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4715



« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2011, 09:05:56 am »

if any PE doctrine can fight off LV,luft is most efficient one Wink

shermans are not problem at all...spam marders...
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NightRain Offline
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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2011, 10:10:48 am »

?

Bar has a 0.4 damage modifer vs soldier armor which makes it hilariously bad against PE. The triple luft AT rifles shred M8s and T17s pretty good.

There is this thing called BAR Suppression Fire which makes people crawl and finally squirm and hug their knees
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Tymathee Offline
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« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2011, 11:49:53 am »

you guys took my post seriously...you're so humorless nightrain. i swear u troll the boards looking for my posts so u can argue with me Tongue.

anyway. Luft takes a lot of patience and a hella lot of micro to be truly effective. You can't just spam 'em and rush 'em into allies, they'll get shredded.
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NightRain Offline
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« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2011, 11:59:20 am »



Either way, we need Heartmann's comments
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smurfORnot Offline
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Posts: 4715



« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2011, 12:21:38 pm »

yep,they are micro intensive...I need to baby sit them all the time...that's why sometimes I loose other units...
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Groundfire Offline
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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2011, 03:32:04 pm »

?

Bar has a 0.4 damage modifer vs soldier armor which makes it hilariously bad against PE.

THANK YOU!

Now, go repost that exact thing in my "buff the Bar" balance thread.

You admitted it! cant take it back! hahahahahah. Tongue
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EliteGren Offline
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« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2011, 11:16:41 pm »

Did you read the thread lol? Nightrain was right because I completely forgot how BAR SF rapes PE inf. Even if you only supress 1 Assault Grenadier you come out ontop cost wise, that's why you should still buy BARs vs PE
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Groundfire Offline
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« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2011, 11:45:28 pm »

God SF is such bullshit, those rifles should just die if you look at them cross eyed, regardless of the investment you have on them.  Roll Eyes
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DarkSoldierX Offline
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« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2011, 11:54:33 pm »

On PE it is very hard to get a ambush. I find that the enemy simply stays away from me or arty's me to death (no its not hard, like tym said) and I don't get a large amount of ambushes in a game.

And then you send your falls out but he cant engage those riflemen because they have bars, and they WONT be put into a position were they can be ambushed.

And then your allies start getting attacked and you have no choice but to go on the offensive, so your pretty much stuck.
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*waiting* 4 DarkSoldierNoobiX pops up to prove how much shit the T17 is penetrating KTs back and Jagd front and how much better the ac/puma is penetrating m10 rear  Cool Cool Cool
Smokaz Offline
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« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2011, 12:31:56 am »

Hah, you funny, so funny, so funny. I had 3 of my rifles pinned by ONE squad of fg42s using covering fire. That's right, Pinned. You better pop that supression fire before they do, or you are screwed.
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NightRain Offline
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« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2011, 05:29:43 am »

Hah, you funny, so funny, so funny. I had 3 of my rifles pinned by ONE squad of fg42s using covering fire. That's right, Pinned. You better pop that supression fire before they do, or you are screwed.


Suppression Fire vs Suppression Fire. GO!
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smurfORnot Offline
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« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2011, 06:03:41 am »

some info on what do you think about the guide,or what should I perhaps modify/change would be nice  Wink


arty is usually not such a big problem,it hurts much more wehr,since they have 'lots' of support weapons...most of the time you can just move away when you hear arty sound or see red smoke...
against arty,be agresive,arty eats his pop,so that means you have more fighting units than he does,use it,and use teamwork(VENT!) to plan combined assualts...but yeah,it can be pain in the ass,when he has wall of mg's,at guns and stuff like that...
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Smokaz Offline
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« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2011, 07:24:12 am »

If you fix the formatting, we can make it a sticky..maybe clean up the overall text a bit, add some headers, some bolds, etc, make it pretty, sift out the useless comments etc.
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