[WM] Terror Wishlist v2 (Doctrine Abilities)

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[LeoPhone]

make sherman upgun cost fuel and pop

[AmPM]

Make the Sherman 76mm cost more pool and fuel. Since pool is based on how powerful the unit is in its role. 13 pop for Sherman upgun is reasonable, since it outright beats a non HEAT P4, beats a HEAT P4 the majority of the time, and an Armor Doc Sherman 76mm rapes the shit out of a P4/STuG even with HEAT and can do a fair amount of damage to a Panther.

Then again, obviously the doctrines and such are all well and good, we can tell how successful and fun the game is by how hugely populated it is...

[Spartan_Marine88]

Then again, obviously the doctrines and such are all well and good, we can tell how successful and fun the game is by how hugely populated it is...

Or we could go back to the real world, and realize most people are waiting for the war map and the rest of the doctrines

[AmPM]

You mean the real world where the doctrines are completely out of balance, only a couple choices are actually viable, some units serve no purpose at all due to current game mechanics, and all that other good stuff?

It's not the lack of warmap tbh, people played tons over the years without a warmap. But whenever the doctrines lack viable variations or a certain play style becomes the most competitive then the game goes stagnant and people leave for other things.

When the new doctrines people will come back, play for a while, then realize that there are still only a few viable build types, get bored, and leave again.

[Mysthalin]

So nobody(18 people on launcher right now) is playing because nobody is listening to AmPm.

Ok .

[Unkn0wn]

If your arguments were correct, people would have never stuck around with EIR back when there were no doctrines. And people would have long stopped playing OMG. So no, doctrines are really not the reason why theres been a decline in the playerbase. Playerbase always fluctuates, and always will, even if we had these 'perfect' doctrines that you're trying to sell...

You can twist and turn this whichever way you like but ultimately you're just using false argumentations to support your view of how the doctrines should have been. Just because you disagree with the design and would have preferred to see them differently doesn't mean they are flawed.

We've gone over this many times now, we're not saying the doctrines are perfect. However, they are not fundamentally flawed. There's some issues, some more serious than others, and we will definitely get to finetuning all that after the last 4 are in.

Now can you please stop bringing this up in every freaking thread? You're always welcome to make a separate thread on it but for the love of god please stop derailing all the others.

[3rdCondor]

Thanks Unknown.

Back on topic...

I would love to see some type of fire-up ability for KCH in terror. I would also be very interested in seeing more obscure weaponry like an offmap that calls in one of those helicopters to a specific area and shoot at infantry and support weapons.


You guys have probably seen this in Joint Ops and know what I'm talking about.

What about a special infantry squad for terror? KCH-like infantry with grenadier rifles (and helmets) and we could make them some super SS infantry. I know that the SS wore regular uniforms, but this is supposed to be fun and cool so how about the shnazzy KCH skins?

Waffen SS infantry
4 man squad with KCH uniforms and Grenadier helmets
Armed with Grenadier kar98k rifles
HP is probably slightly higher than grenadier with some light armor (not heroic)
Capable of fireup, faust purchase, 4 mp44s <faust 35 mun><mp44 can be whatever devs feel  is appropriate>
Could these SS be equipped with flamethrowers? maybe they should. mp40s? maybe they should. I dunno, I just want some cool infantry that goes beyond 4 man KCH. Something cheaper so people can blob more of these guys instead of a couple of KCH.

[AmPM]

I would actually say 18 is pretty dead, how many are actively playing right now and not just sitting in launcher because they leave it running?

After a major update its not unusual to see 40 people in there playing.

And no, the doctrine layouts themselves are not a flawed system, however, the abilities themselves, not being balanced, and some not even being useful (33% more Pen on Wirblwind) results in a poor balance situation.

Also due to many doctrines overlapping in what they do, the only real difference is what offmaps you have access to (these things should cost resources, just like any other unlock) and whether or not there is a combination that allows for uber spam (defensive volks nades + faust spam, etc.).

Actually, I am curious, what is the current active population compared to a year or two ago. I'm wondering if it has actually gone up at all in the last 2 years.

[LeoPhone]

fire up is only for allies because of the superior suppression weapons axis have and since the allied troops take more ground per squad they are also easier to suppress (right?)
A super long ranged AI squad with fire up would only lead to blobbing and it will be the end for any allied inf.

the heli would be cool to have but it is impossible unless someone makes a new one. the guy who made it has to give permission but hes no longer around
http://forums.theguidestone.com/showthread.php?256228-Drache-Infantry-Drop-Off&p=1045187710&viewfull=1#post1045187710

[Smokaz]

I hope terror turns out good. I'm on hiatus waiting for the warmap. I'm sure it's a huge pain the butt for EIRRMOD and that he is doing his best with what time he has availab le.

 EIRR will survive anything, no doubt. Take a break if it annoys you, come back and the magic will return.

[AmPM]

fire up is only for allies because of the superior suppression weapons axis have and since the allied troops take more ground per squad they are also easier to suppress (right?)
A super long ranged AI squad with fire up would only lead to blobbing and it will be the end for any allied inf.

the heli would be cool to have but it is impossible unless someone makes a new one. the guy who made it has to give permission but hes no longer around
http://forums.theguidestone.com/showthread.php?256228-Drache-Infantry-Drop-Off&p=1045187710&viewfull=1#post1045187710

The only one being the HMG? Allies have BARs all over the place that insta suppress.

[LeoPhone]

stug, halftrack. hmg is all you need though.

[AmPM]

BAR, Quad, HMG, M8', Halftrack, etc.

Both sides have pretty equal suppression.

[LeoPhone]

no they don't.

and what about suppression resistance on the squads?

even the CW have fireup (on their LT). and smoke on mandos. not one axis unit has it.

[DarkSoldierX]

KCH recieve -50% less surpression and I think sprint may reduce incomming suppression for the duration, but it wont break suppression.

[panzerman]

stags supress to, brit hmg has insta supress button...

i think it would be neat for what Condor has come up with

in aspect the whole game was built around allies to start with... fire up was really made for the capmaign and they probs like it so much they put it in game
should give it a go on this axis unit as replacement for the 4man kch

[Tymathee]

all hmgs suppress panzerman and axis, both sides have better suppression than allies have. yes there are insta suppress abilities but they're usually one time but the mg42 can continue to suppress almost instantly while its on the field, thats the reason why allies have fireup.

back on topic, the question is what do we want terror to focus on? blitz seems to focus on hit and run, sneak based and flanking tactics, the offensive side, defensive is well defensive, they make you feel sorry for attacking them, maybe Terror should have abilities that force the enemy to beat itself or kick your butt if you play defensively.

I think terror would be the perfect doc to put buffs on the negelcted wehr units, panthers, ostwinds, pio's. Now that i think about it, ostwinds buffs would be great because they're really good at guarding KT's.

i think an aura ability for the KT would be awesome, maybe it slows infantry that gets near it (kind of an anti sticky defense) has a type of insta pin ability, HE rounds like the persh.

oh yeah the g-wagen needs <3 too. no one uses that thing, it either needs doc buffs, a change back in its gun (right now its the marder gun witout lockdown) or a price change.

[Spartan_Marine88]

all hmgs suppress panzerman and axis, both sides have better suppression than allies have. yes there are insta suppress abilities but they're usually one time but the mg42 can continue to suppress almost instantly while its on the field, thats the reason why allies have fireup.

back on topic, the question is what do we want terror to focus on? blitz seems to focus on hit and run, sneak based and flanking tactics, the offensive side, defensive is well defensive, they make you feel sorry for attacking them, maybe Terror should have abilities that force the enemy to beat itself or kick your butt if you play defensively.

I think terror would be the perfect doc to put buffs on the negelcted wehr units, panthers, ostwinds, pio's. Now that i think about it, ostwinds buffs would be great because they're really good at guarding KT's.

i think an aura ability for the KT would be awesome, maybe it slows infantry that gets near it (kind of an anti sticky defense) has a type of insta pin ability, HE rounds like the persh.

oh yeah the g-wagen needs <3 too. no one uses that thing, it either needs doc buffs, a change back in its gun (right now its the marder gun witout lockdown) or a price change.

KT tank shock? i like it

And as the Panther was one of the most feared tanks in ww2 it makes sense that Terror would take it under its wing.

(why not a purchasable ts for it too?)

Sure Tank shock may seem brutal for those 2 units, but allied elite inf would be fine with fire up and mando smoke, but arrogant sticky rifles, and buttoning brens would be nice and vulnerable

also maybe a cooldown HE round for Panther and KT?

[AmPM]

What would be cool for the KT would be like a long range shot thats on cooldown.

Sure it may not be usable all the time, but it would help it finish off a retreating enemy tank or get that first hit in.

Something like +10 range for 1 shot on a 60 second cooldown or something.

[VanOwen]

KT tank shock? i like it

And as the Panther was one of the most feared tanks in ww2 it makes sense that Terror would take it under its wing.

I thought in general the Tiger was more feared by the average solider.  I recall reading excerpts from US GIs where every time they saw even a MkIII or a MkIV they swore it was a Tiger.

But this makes me think of an idea along the Terror lines. 
How about an ability that makes all your currently deployed tanks look like Tigers? 
Or... Deploying Fake Tigers along with a real one?
Or ...give your tanks a 'Shock and Awe' ability for a Tiger that makes the target squad flee off the map (one use obviously).