nugnugx
Donator
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« on: February 04, 2011, 04:49:42 am » |
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Stug is underpriced
It's a moving pak with smaller damage that does not die to small arms fire, with good armor that can take on all allied medium tanks no problem, current price allows spamming of them.
Current price : 300MP 140 FU 8 pop
Price proposed : 300 MP 200 FU 10 pop
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| BigDick
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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2011, 05:01:06 am » |
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It's a moving pak with smaller damage that does not die to small arms fire, with good armor that can take on all allied medium tanks no problem, current price allows spamming of them.
+ almost doubled pop of a pak + can't be recrewed 100 times + can't be cloaked (usually) + pak got 50% more range + stug fires much slower + stug gun got much less penetration |
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nugnugx
Donator
Posts: 4051
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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2011, 05:08:38 am » |
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+ almost doubled pop of a pak
It's a tank + can't be recrewed 100 times
Cannot be killed by small arms fire + pak got 50% more range
stug can move and fire + stug gun got much less penetration
enough to penetrate allied medium tanks and take on a pershing with 2-3 stugs which you can spam thx to small price. Stug currently is a much better deal than pak |
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| BigDick
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2011, 05:10:40 am » |
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why are you keep repeating your arguments i quoted while i just added the ones you did not had into your list?
makes no sense to me tbh
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| PonySlaystation
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2011, 05:12:09 am » |
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You forgot about the munitions cost that you must have.
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Sharks are not monsters Henley, they are cute, cuddly and misunderstood. They love humans. sometimes they love TOO much. They love people so much that sometimes their kisses separate people into two flailing pieces which are consumed by other sharks in a frenzy of peace and joy.
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skaffa
Honoured Member
 Posts: 3130
The very best player of one of the four factions.
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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2011, 05:19:08 am » |
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The 8 pop is one of the great things/benefits about the Stug, something I wouldnt touch.
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bad luck skaffa> creates best and most played eir maps
> hated for creating best and most played eir maps
47k new all time record?
Don't knock it til uve tried it bitchface, this isn't anything like salads version. Besides u said a semois conversion would never work, now look that's the most played map, ohgodwhy.jpg r u map lead |
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nugnugx
Donator
Posts: 4051
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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2011, 05:19:56 am » |
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The 8 pop is one of the great things/benefits about the Stug, something I wouldnt touch.
no other tank in-game is 8 pop. even the glass m10 is 10 pop. 8 pop needs to go. (if we want to have balance and not spam fests) |
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| spinn72
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« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2011, 05:24:46 am » |
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You forgot about the munitions cost that you must have.
Totally agree. MU cost is the downfall of an otherwise incredible, pop efficient tank. |
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nugnugx
Donator
Posts: 4051
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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2011, 05:26:15 am » |
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Totally agree. MU cost is the downfall of an otherwise incredible, pop efficient tank.
mg is optionary for inf.(main purpose of stugs are vehs/tanks) |
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Illegal_Carrot
Global Moderator
 Posts: 1068
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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2011, 05:28:16 am » |
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A StuG without an MG is only half effective.
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Rifle87654: Give me reward points.
Brn4meplz: I'm drunk. |
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nugnugx
Donator
Posts: 4051
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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2011, 05:29:22 am » |
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A StuG without an MG is only half effective.
vs vehicles and tanks , right ? because main purpose of stugs is inf , same as pak. |
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| spinn72
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« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2011, 05:34:50 am » |
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I've always felt that this tank was underused for its price, and especially for its pop. If you want people to start taking you seriously, run an 8 Stug company like Speedy and prove to everyone why it's OP.
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nugnugx
Donator
Posts: 4051
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« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2011, 05:39:05 am » |
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I've always felt that this tank was underused for its price, and especially for its pop. If you want people to start taking you seriously, run an 8 Stug company like Speedy and prove to everyone why it's OP.
i've done that countless times before with t17 , stag , volks . I don't have time nor will to do that every time again when something is op, just to prove a point fighting vs all the defenders that currently run their gimmick spam. It only took a year to acknowledge that hummel needs a spread decrease and it's slated for next patch. From now on i'm just posting what is op or up and so everyone knows about it . |
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 05:42:19 am by nugnugx »
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| Kruno
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« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2011, 05:47:43 am » |
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Stug is underpriced
It's a moving pak with smaller damage that does not die to small arms fire, with good armor that can take on all allied medium tanks no problem, current price allows spamming of them.
Current price : 300MP 140 FU 8 pop
Price proposed : 300 MP 200 FU 10 pop
So basicly, you wonna Stug to cost 10 fuel more than m10, and be at same pop. While playing armour m10 can be 8 pop, or 7 (dont recall rly). While m10 has much greater usage. While m10 has far greater speed. While m10 can easy crush infantry. While m10 has much greater penetration and dmg. And will probalby live way longer due to it speed. It also can hunt powerful panther, while non even 5 stugs can hunt and kill pershing. Yea, that sounds a bout right. |
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LeoPhone
Honoured Member
Posts: 0
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« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2011, 06:24:55 am » |
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please keep the realism out. this is a balance discussion. |
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Unkn0wn
No longer retired
 Posts: 18379
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« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2011, 06:43:57 am » |
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The stug's price is what it is after years of finetuning, thus the current price or something in the area of the current price is most likely where balance lies. Advocating an increase to 200 F seems quite drastic to me.
I would very much encourage you to try them out for yourself.
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| NightRain
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« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2011, 06:48:05 am » |
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StuGs are cheap for a reason: First of all 57mm Counter them 100% effectively. IT has no turret like M10 does and has less dmg and penetration than the M10. While StuG is the Wehrmacht's Tank Destroyer it is good I don't say it is bad and it is indeed very cost effective. Though, fully upgraded StuG = can go up to 130 Munition +. (GE, Smoke barrage combined adds 70 mun more).
StuG as a assault gun is very cost effective, while it isn't the strongest platform at all vs anti tank guns it is good vs tanks and other such. In short it is a pak on wheels. The worst thing is, You can have 10 of these with 2 fuel advantages and all munition advantages but don't count on having anything but infantry and you'd end up paying PPs anyway.
StuG can fair vs any vehicle but: Firefly, Pershing. Doc buffed M10s might be able to circle strafe it but ultimately StuG lays in its role as a assault gun and fairs badly without infantry support.
In short: Infantry supported StuG is dangerous opponent: Unsupported easy pick up.
I propose StuG's fuel increase from 140 to 150 (or 145). You can have 10 of these afterwards but you aint got no fuel and you pay pps.
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 06:51:31 am by NightRain »
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Because a forum post should be like a woman's skirt. Long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting.
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nugnugx
Donator
Posts: 4051
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« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2011, 06:56:13 am » |
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The stug's price is what it is after years of finetuning, thus the current price or something in the area of the current price is most likely where balance lies. Advocating an increase to 200 F seems quite drastic to me.
I would very much encourage you to try them out for yourself.
Yes finetuning after years, but don't forget everything else is also changing, so leaving 1 thing unchanged after many years where pretty much everything changed is not a good idea. You fine tune units to the current standards not what was years ago. Don't forget also stug recieved a buff taken from the vcoh patch. |
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Unkn0wn
No longer retired
Posts: 18379
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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2011, 06:59:39 am » |
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What recent changes are you referring to that would justify a price increase for the StuG? There haven't been any serious changes to the environment StuGs operate in since the last price change on the Stug.
Anyway, perhaps a rise to 150 F could be in order though, it's a valuable discussion.
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