spinn72
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« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2011, 07:08:42 am » |
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Nig StuGs are cheap for a reason: First of all 57mm Counter them 100% effectively. IT has no turret like M10 does and has less dmg and penetration than the M10. While StuG is the Wehrmacht's Tank Destroyer it is good I don't say it is bad and it is indeed very cost effective. Though, fully upgraded StuG = can go up to 130 Munition +. (GE, Smoke barrage combined adds 70 mun more).
StuG as a assault gun is very cost effective, while it isn't the strongest platform at all vs anti tank guns it is good vs tanks and other such. In short it is a pak on wheels. The worst thing is, You can have 10 of these with 2 fuel advantages and all munition advantages but don't count on having anything but infantry and you'd end up paying PPs anyway.
StuG can fair vs any vehicle but: Firefly, Pershing. Doc buffed M10s might be able to circle strafe it but ultimately StuG lays in its role as a assault gun and fairs badly without infantry support.
In short: Infantry supported StuG is dangerous opponent: Unsupported easy pick up.
I propose StuG's fuel increase from 140 to 150 (or 145). You can have 10 of these afterwards but you aint got no fuel and you pay pps.
+1. 10 FU increase is good, limits the overall number. |
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| NightRain
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« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2011, 07:13:23 am » |
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Nig
+1.
10 FU increase is good, limits the overall number.
10 fuel does not limit its overall number at all. |
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Because a forum post should be like a woman's skirt. Long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting.
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nugnugx
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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2011, 07:21:29 am » |
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200 does :p
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| NightRain
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2011, 07:24:11 am » |
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200 does :p
No way StuG would be worth 200 fuel. M10s are 190 fuel and even if StuGs were close to M10s fuelwise they'd still be overpriced. If Stugs were 150 or 145 it'd be balanced. |
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nugnugx
Donator
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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2011, 07:25:08 am » |
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No way StuG would be worth 200 fuel. M10s are 190 fuel and even if StuGs were close to M10s fuelwise they'd still be overpriced. If Stugs were 150 or 145 it'd be balanced.
but still they are 8 pop , too low for unit of its calibre imo , the health , the armor, the gun, and while 10 FU does not limit anything , 170 should be the lowest imo. a t17 costs 125 fu and is 9 pop and stug is 8 pop and 140 fu ? what ? stug can crush inf and kill it with mg and it is the counter to t17 and more. Stug currently priced does a role of LV/AT-gun/medium tank all in one package |
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 07:28:22 am by nugnugx »
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TheIcelandicManiac
Resident forum troll. Fucked unkn0wns mom
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« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2011, 07:31:25 am » |
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i do not complane about the stug due to it can
1. a churchill MKVI can counter it.
2. AT Gun with aprounds you can take it out in 2 hits.
3. a zook can take it out with some minor micro.
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Soon™
gj icelandic i am proud of u  Sometimes its like PQ doesnt carrot all.
Work Harder |
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| NightRain
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« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2011, 07:38:29 am » |
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StuG is still a turretless anti tank gun. 8 Pop is good enough for it as it performs perfectly with that role. Was it ten or more it wouldn't be pop effective.
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
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« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2011, 07:54:31 am » |
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Well, let's assume Nug's point of view and make a statistical functional analysis of the vanilla StuG's effectiveness versus purely tanks and vehicles(because he does have a good point saying the StuG's role is anti-tank first and foremost).
It deals 87.5 damage every 7 seconds at 8 popcap.
Meaning it has a DPS/popcap of 1.5625
A Panzer 4 deals 87.5 damage every 4.5-5.5 seconds at 12 popcap.
Meaning it has a DPS/popcap of 1.3248-1.6204
Seems pretty balanced for popcap/DPS relationship, tbfh.
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nugnugx
Donator
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« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2011, 07:57:45 am » |
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Now myst compare the MP FU pop price and dps for 3 stugs and 2 pz4 and share with us your findings. (having on field 3 stugs vs 2 pz4 ofcourse)
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 07:59:32 am by nugnugx »
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| BigDick
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« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2011, 08:01:09 am » |
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actually your "statistical functional analysis" is to general because it deals 131.25 damage against all sherman armored tanks and 109.375 against m10/hellcats/m8 etc.
not saying the stug is in any kind op in current eir environment
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nugnugx
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« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2011, 08:02:45 am » |
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not saying the stug is in any kind op in current eir environment
Unknown let me post here you know what face this once on balance forum plox plox plxo |
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| PonySlaystation
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« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2011, 08:02:49 am » |
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i've done that countless times before with t17 , stag , volks .
I don't have time nor will to do that every time again when something is op, just to prove a point fighting vs all the defenders that currently run their gimmick spam.
It only took a year to acknowledge that hummel needs a spread decrease and it's slated for next patch.
From now on i'm just posting what is op or up and so everyone knows about it .
How can you uphold a balance discussion if you never even use them? |
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Sharks are not monsters Henley, they are cute, cuddly and misunderstood. They love humans. sometimes they love TOO much. They love people so much that sometimes their kisses separate people into two flailing pieces which are consumed by other sharks in a frenzy of peace and joy.
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
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« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2011, 08:03:15 am » |
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3x StuGs
37.5 DPS
2x P4s
31.7952-38.8896 DPS
900 MP 420 FU for 3x StuGs
800 MP 480 FU for 2x P4s.
And P4s got turrets + much better vs infantry.
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nugnugx
Donator
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« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2011, 08:04:47 am » |
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3x StuGs
37.5 DPS
2x P4s
31.7952-38.8896 DPS
900 MP 420 FU for 3x StuGs
800 MP 480 FU for 2x P4s.
And P4s got turrets + much better vs infantry.
crush, mg , health distributed on 3 platforms , do i need to say more ? everyone knows that quantity > quality = eir it's the basic formula. |
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LeoPhone
Honoured Member
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« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2011, 08:07:57 am » |
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what are you gonna do vs atgs with stug spam? p4s can flank them.
hp distributed over 3 platforms is actually worse since you lose your dps more in an even line compared to damage taken. with only 1 or 2 platforms you can keep the dps at maximum until the end.
stug is fine.
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 08:10:02 am by LeoPhone »
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nugnugx
Donator
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« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2011, 08:09:27 am » |
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what are you gonna do vs atgs with stug spam? p4s can flank them.
stug is fine.
i forgot that p4s and stugs are atg counter , silly me. |
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LeoPhone
Honoured Member
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« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2011, 08:11:33 am » |
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i forgot that p4s and stugs are atg counter , silly me.
have you ever seen a double p4 callin nug? what did the p4s do to atg? have you also seen 3 stugs fighting an atg? what happened there? |
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nugnugx
Donator
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« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2011, 08:16:17 am » |
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have you ever seen a double p4 callin nug? what did the p4s do to atg?
have you also seen 3 stugs fighting an atg? what happened there?
have you seen second atg behind an atg ? what did it do to all axis tanks ? have you seen zooka/piat/rr squad helping atg ? what did they do to stugs, p4s? useless theorycrafting. |
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
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« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2011, 08:42:30 am » |
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P4 and StuG MGs are identical, afaik - so yeah. Doesn't matter.
Crush is also rather similar in efficiency.
The health distributed across 3 platforms over 2 platforms actually means it's worse - you lose DPS more often.
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