[both] Sherman and Pz4

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[nugnugx]

Sherman is a little better, it has 636 HP vs 600hp of Pz4 and is 0.2 faster  , the 76mm of shermans reloads 2 secs longer but it has higher penetration than PZ4


Current :

Sherman :  395 MP FU 240 ( 60 MU for 76mm )

PZ4 : 400MP 250 FU

New price according to stats :

Sherman: 410MP FU 220 ( 60 FU for 76mm, [ i see no purpose of giving MU for a gun that panzer gains also for fu and not for mu] )

[Demon767]

did you take into account that the reload penalty on the sherman was taken out.. LIKE A YEAR AGO 

[Illegal_Carrot]

The 76mm's reload penalty was removed a long time ago.

E: Beaten.

[nugnugx]

did you take into account that the reload penalty on the sherman was taken out.. LIKE A YEAR AGO  

nope ,  so just increase the fu price on gun by additional 20-30 , that's all


it always made me wonder that sherman is better than p4 but the price is lower on it. (also the splash is higher on sherman)

[Unkn0wn]

We like our upgrades to cost Munitions, but making it fuel is something we should indeed perhaps consider here.

[nugnugx]

We like our upgrades to cost Munitions, but making it fuel is something we should indeed perhaps consider here.

ok but why sherman costs overall less than pz4 if sherman has better stats  and even the upgun has better splash than the pz4 one ?

[nugnugx]

ok but why sherman costs overall less than pz4 if sherman has better stats  and even the upgun has better splash than the pz4 one ?

bumping my question 

[Unkn0wn]

Cleaned, no need for the flaming.
If you have nothing constructive to post, don't bother posting at all.

[cloud234]

ok but why sherman costs overall less than pz4 if sherman has better stats  and even the upgun has better splash than the pz4 one ?

Perhaps because unupgraded Pz4 > Sherman? However Sherman is better as an all rounded tank than the P4 is truly speaking.

[nugnugx]

Perhaps because unupgraded Pz4 > Sherman?

only in gun penetration vs tanks , but rest is worse , speed , health , splash vs inf    , and when you buy upgun the price does not change on sherman , no ?

And balancing is not on 'this unit > that unit' but on effectivness of the unit on what is it supposed to do, it's just that p4 and sherman are practicaly mirror units , sherman is a little better but the actual cost is lower.

maybe make upgun cost  MP + FU

[Tymathee]

p4 is a better killer than a sherman because it reloads faster, plus because of lower health squads on allies, the .50 cal on the p4 will do more damage than the sherman 50.

also its survivability is higher because there are no schrecks or long range at vehicles that take 100+ damage and because of skirts taking 10% dmg from the sherman gun and 10% pen and dmg from hand held at.

[AmPM]

Tym, actually that is false information.

Your squads have equivalent health (volks = rifles); however, there are less guys on axis squads, so lets say the P4 kills 2 riflemen, ok, you are down 1/3. Volks lose 2 guys, lose 2/5ths. Or how about grens when you shoot and instantly kill 2 with a sherman (which happens, sherman does the SAME damage as the P4).

No, you don't have to worry about Schreks with the P4 (not that schreks are accurate at long range) but you do have to limit your offensive due to stickies/button insta pwn, RR's and zooks. Not to mention you know any Allied medium tank can kill or nearly kill you, so any little hit you take can knock your tank out of an offensive.

[Spartan_Marine88]

stickies/button insta pwn

Once again, watch the rifle men, if you see them sticky wind up, back away wait for animation to start again, back away = no more stickies.

Button, nudge in get player to button early back away and no more button.

Also your tanks max range is GREATER then these abilities, AND let them run into your infantry that should be supporting your tank.

RR's and zooks

RR blobs are an issue (but not terribly so), but zooks should never be complained about, buy skirts and don't turn your rear to the enemy.

[AmPM]

Spartan, read the post, those two abilities pretty much force a halt to an armor offensive.

[NightRain]

Spartan, read the post, those two abilities pretty much force a halt to an armor offensive.

You mean a expensive armored offensive?

[Demon767]

ATG AP round can take 1/3 of your p4s health in 1 hit

[Groundfire]

Someone who thinks that the sherman should be equal in price to the P4, give me one reason for why you should think that the sherman should be a tad bit cheaper than the P4.

Just for the sake of being devils advocate. "I think that the sherman should be equally priced as the P4 BUT..."

Come now, consider asyemetric balance. The tanks are not equal because their counters and targets are not equal.

If you cant see it from both sides, then im not interested in reading all of this.

[nugnugx]

Someone who thinks that the sherman should be equal in price to the P4, give me one reason for why you should think that the sherman should be a tad bit cheaper than the P4.

Just for the sake of being devils advocate. "I think that the sherman should be equally priced as the P4 BUT..."

Come now, consider asyemetric balance. The tanks are not equal because their counters and targets are not equal.

If you cant see it from both sides, then im not interested in reading all of this.

Since when balancing is based on other units? and not on the own units stats and effectivness ?

By that logic,  KT should costs 100 mp and 100 FU because it can get stickied, atged, rred ,piated , buttoned  etc

[Groundfire]

Pricing is based on the unit's effectiveness.

If we left the sherman the same but every axis unit was able to fire 88mm lazer beams out of their ass for 500 damage at 100% accuracy then the sherman would be pretty shit now wouldnt it?

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Pricing is based on the unit's effectiveness.

If we left the sherman the same but every axis unit was able to fire 88mm lazer beams out of their ass for 500 damage at 100% accuracy then the sherman would be pretty shit now wouldnt it?

make the jagd that way and cost 1000 fule and 6000 manpower and we got ourselfs a deal