Balance Team Code of Conduct (Proposal)

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[lionel23]

That's a pretty bad example in today's current political climate, isn't it? 

[TheWindCriesMary]

Unfortunately I spent 90% of my time on the balance team trying to contain the amount of damage Smokaz and Gamesguy could inflict upon the mod.I would start huge threads on why personal bias and lack of objectivity needed to be controlled, and why we couldn't just assume that everyone on the balance team was qualified to discuss nerf/buffs on every unit in the game. Smokaz would get so angry that at one point he was sending PMs like crazy to all his mod/dev friends trying to get me kicked off the team.

Needless to say when they eventually reformed the balance team, they felt I slowed things down too much so I wasn't invited back.

They did go on to make Gamesguy a developer though. That sure turned out to be a brilliant move.

And they kept Smokaz on the team. And then they had the audacity to act surprised when he recently got caught abusing his balance influence by threatening other players with nerfs in game just because he lost.


If you continue to reward those who abuse their power because it's easier than dealing with those who argue against it, then you are going to get the same result over and over again. Doing the same behavior over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

-Wind

[skaffa]

That's a pretty bad example in today's current political climate, isn't it? 

Haha.
Obama needs 4 or 8 years to make change yes we can, how long does EIR exist ?

We can also make all discussions on a public forum, for all to watch but only the balance team members can post on it.
Plus we could also invisible the names of the posters so people, only revealed after a consensus is reached, so people/other balance members dont just disagree with a certain idea because they think the player sux or dont like him.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Haha.
Obama needs 4 or 8 years to make change yes we can, how long does EIR exist ?

by this rate if it continues 1 day to 1 month.

[COHCommando]

this must go into affect now this is a very good idea

[EIRRMod]

<snip>
Needless to say when they eventually reformed the balance team, they felt I slowed things down too much so I wasn't invited back.
<snip>

When a thread reaches over ten pages on one subject - due to multiple 1000 word posts, arguing with the posters rather than the point of the thread - I got a little crosseyed

I remember requesting verbosity, and when that didnt happen *shrug* you werent indeed invited back.

Time has passed, and I would like to review how balance is conducted AFTER the warmap has gone beta - when I have more time to personally oversee the project.

If both you and Lionel would like to contact me via PM - I will seriously consider your suggestions

[TheWindCriesMary]

When a thread reaches over ten pages on one subject - due to multiple 1000 word posts, arguing with the posters rather than the point of the thread - I got a little crosseyed

I have to take the blame on this one, but in all honesty you can't put me in the same balance team as someone like Smokaz or Gamesguy and expect anything less. Two crooked and completely biased guys like those two and someone like me who absolutely can't stand that kind of nonsense in a balance forum where real impact can be made on hundreds of people's favorite game.... that's a recipe for major arguments.

It's actually why I completely understand and agree with your decision not to have me on the most recent balance team. Why? Because you chose Smokaz and Gamesguy, and as long as I was on the team I would not have stopped tearing apart each and every one of their completely unethical balance posts until they had either been kicked off or a stringent ethical balancing code of conduct (like this one) had been put in place.

You can't have guys like that and me on the same team without fireworks. Why?

Because people invest too much of their time into this mod, both as developers and players, for its balance (which is arguably one of the most important things in a game) to be at the whim of a handful of people who have absolutely no awareness of themselves or their own inherent biases. It absolutely cannot stand, because it leads to a system where NOBODY has the least bit of faith in how balance is conducted. Aka. the current climate of the mod. Until there is accountability, the balance system of EiR has the credibility of a lehman brothers stock portfolio.

With that being said, not having me back on the team definitely saved you a lot of long ass posts of me deconstructing people's horrible balance ethics, however it put the foxes in charge of the hen house with no angry farmer to keep them in check.

If you put a system like this code of conduct in place, however, you won't need a farmer. That's the whole point of this.

Time has passed, and I would like to review how balance is conducted AFTER the warmap has gone beta - when I have more time to personally oversee the project.

This is encouraging. What might this entail? More transparency? A more ethical and informed due process? This mod has content miles ahead of any other out there. If it just got its act together with balancing and community managing, there would be no reason why it wouldn't also be hugely popular and jam packed with people.

-Wind

[EIRRMod]

<snip>

This is encouraging. What might this entail? More transparency? A more ethical and informed due process? This mod has content miles ahead of any other out there. If it just got its act together with balancing and community managing, there would be no reason why it wouldn't also be hugely popular and jam packed with people.

-Wind

Probably first opening up the balance team with more people.

Then possibly making the decisions publicly viewable (which, as people have pointed out, would take more time than just 'copy/pasting' the patch change).

[TheWindCriesMary]

Probably first opening up the balance team with more people.

Then possibly making the decisions publicly viewable (which, as people have pointed out, would take more time than just 'copy/pasting' the patch change).

Would any of the proposals in this code of conduct be a part of this plan? Making the decisions publicly viewable is a good step I'm not disagreeing on that, but the way decisions are achieved is sometimes just as important what.

Granted some people will always complain when a new patch is released, but if you had a system in place that allowed you to say "look, here is the way we balance. This is how we make sure that biased and out-of-touch people don't infiltrate our process. This is how we make sure everyone who weighs in on an issue is qualified and has the right experience to do so..."

You take the wind out of complainer's sails when you have a thorough and strong system that is built with integrity.

-Wind

[EIRRMod]

Would any of the proposals in this code of conduct be a part of this plan? Making the decisions publicly viewable is a good step I'm not disagreeing on that, but the way decisions are achieved is sometimes just as important what.

Granted some people will always complain when a new patch is released, but if you had a system in place that allowed you to say "look, here is the way we balance. This is how we make sure that biased and out-of-touch people don't infiltrate our process. This is how we make sure everyone who weighs in on an issue is qualified and has the right experience to do so..."

You take the wind out of complainer's sails when you have a thorough and strong system that is built with integrity.

-Wind

You can also bog down the effect and reach stalemates that can only be passed by a veto (which is me) - and at this time, Im not comfortable with that.

But yeah, I can see the benefits of a Code of Conduct like you said (even if theres one already, just not quite as verbose).  Again, and I dont mean to say this as a 'fob off' - but I'll get round to it when I can.

[Demon767]

It should be mandatory for all Balance members to put there balls in a Guillotine. If the community hates there decisions.... slice...

[WildZontar]

It should be mandatory for all Balance members to put there balls in a Guillotine. If the community hates there decisions.... slice...

+999999999999 

[Jazlizard]

You can also bog down the effect and reach stalemates that can only be passed by a veto (which is me) - and at this time, Im not comfortable with that.

*Waves to all his old buddies.* So I been lurking on the forums and couldn't help but follow this thread.

EIRRMod, I think that in such a case, assuming good balance team members, that either a compromise with testing needs to happen on the issue, or testing of opposing solutions needs to take place.

For example in a stalemate situation, if it's a yes / no argument; for example a unit getting an ability vs not getting it, perhaps a toned down version should be tested on said unit. Or perhaps just test the full version, if the PRO side is truly objective they should acknowledge if it's too much. (If not the player base will surely freak the fuck out and let you know!)

If it's a "No we should really do X to fix it" vs "No we should really do Y to fix it!", then perhaps both solutions could be tested separately if a compromise to find solution Z  pleasing both sides isn't possible.

Ideally on a team that works together you never get a exact split as both sides are willing to see the other sides argument and try things and come to a general consensus. You have the capability to test sooo much, and I think with OBJECTIVE type personalities, people can see when a change is good for the game and when it's not. When you inject ego, extreme bias, and just plain old argumentative personalities into the mix, things just get ugly.

I really think there has been some positive discussion and ideas in this thread and hope it leads to something good for the MOD.

Kudos Wind, for sticking your neck out there.

-Jazlizard

[Unkn0wn]

The balance team will be undergoing some changes, both in its procedures and in its composition.

[RoyalHants]

The balance team will be undergoing some changes, both in its procedures and in its composition.

BURN THE WITHCHES ? yes/no

[3rdCondor]

The balance team will be undergoing some changes, both in its procedures and in its composition.

thanks for the info unknown

Since the balance team is going to be re-evaluated, I'm going to stop raging. Others may be a little skeptical and would like to wait and see, but I'm convinced.

[AmPM]

[WildZontar]

Turned me into a newt!

[RoyalHants]

i got better



this is probobly a mistake since i think ive run out of warnings

ah well im glad to here of the ........ change