[WM&CW] PIAT vs Schrek

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[NightRain]

I have had shreks randomly snipe my officers and insta gib infantry too, doesn't happen that often but it sticks in your mind and seems like it happens alot more then it does.

Happens just as rarely as a sticky bomb not hitting its target

[Demon767]

Happens just as rarely as a sticky bomb not hitting its target

+1

[Spartan_Marine88]

+1

Helpful demon, supporting a stupid comment.

A small chance to hit an infantry is not equal to an always hit sticky.

[Demon767]

Sarcasm, you should learn it.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Sarcasm, you should learn it.

I chose intelligence instead of quick comments designed to hide just how little the user actually knows.

[Demon767]

I chose intelligence instead of quick comments designed to hide just how little the user actually knows.

wrong again.

[Spartan_Marine88]

wrong again.

Oh no, i right again. To be wrong again, it would require me to be both wrong now and wrong previously.

wrong.

Right (no #1)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._68_AT_Grenade

Goddamn people in this mod need to start learning about the war they claim to know so much about

Right #2

[Demon767]

*facepalm*

Helpful demon, supporting a stupid comment.

A small chance to hit an infantry is not equal to an always hit sticky.

wrong

I chose intelligence instead of quick comments designed to hide just how little the user actually knows.

wrong again

[Scotzmen]

your all wrong, im right.

[Mysthalin]

Missing with a sticky is about 0.1% probability
Hitting an infantry guy with a shrek is 15% if the enemy infantry isn't moving and at short range. Can drop to 2.625% if it's at long range and the enemy infantry IS moving.

So yeah.. Schrecks will hit infantry a lot more often than stickies will miss.

[8thRifleRegiment]

i think we sorta lost sight of the point of this post. Piats are far more cost effective the shrecks becuase you can fire from cover, especially on commandoes, you dont even need to fire from cover, just pop the smoke fire, run back into teh fog of war even before the enemy has a chance to fire back at you. Win

[Spartan_Marine88]

i think we sorta lost sight of the point of this post. Piats are far more cost effective the shrecks becuase you can fire from cover, especially on commandoes, you dont even need to fire from cover, just pop the smoke fire, run back into teh fog of war even before the enemy has a chance to fire back at you. Win

Nah, fire from behind a shot blocker while microing something else without wasting your smoke.

[Demon767]

No, Shreks are far more effective then Piats.

1. Due to the speed of most allied vehicles / tanks, most piats will NOT hit
2. You do not want a Piat when your facing M8s/T17s etc. the advantage of shrek is if it rolls a hit, IT WILL HIT. it will home in. Piats arent able to do this.
3. Having to rely on 2 pieces of equipment to hit instead of 1 is a liability, you wont get most of your damage output from one piat, that said, in most cases having 2 squad members gibbed by a tank instantaneously  happens alot, thus having 2 squad members ieth AT equipment, lose another member you have 1 squad memebr doing half the damage without any chance of homing onto the target like the shrek is able to.

The issue about shot blockers is not a way to base the price on. ive havent been hit by Piats behind Hedges or buildings in a long while, i base this on L2P to people who experience this problem. Its easy to negate that advantage with some pre planning, and you knowign the maps, knowing the normal spots for piat campers, then you just avoid those area and bring them to fight on your group, when a tank length of reversing will negate he piat all together.

[PonySlaystation]

You are absolutely correct but you can also say that the other way around. A player who uses his piats well can negate any damage by just standing behind obstacles whilst dealing a lot of damage to both infantry and tanks.

I know from experience that piats are just so much easier to gain vet with. Piats function more like a priest, fragile but deadly and if used correctly they can deal damage without taking any. PzShrecks functions more like a bike, they can't hit anything, they can't do any damage and they usually end up dead before getting even a single hit/kill.

That piats have low accuracy is a myth, if they have vet or use ambush they can never miss a puma even if it moves on a road. And even if they do miss, they still fired from behind cover somewhere so they never take any damage.

There is a reason why players have almost entirely stopped using pzshrecks for their grenadiers while piats remain a very common unit on the battlefield, you may see shrecks occasionally on tankbusters or stormtroopers but for grenadiers it's just too overpriced for what they do, even when they sit in houses they are ineffective.

The piats are not the problem in this discussion, they are fine the way they are and CW needs them to make up for their lack of sustainable AT. But PzShrecks could use a small decrease in price, I have not seen a shreck grenadier in so long, I probably forgot how they look like. Most people are like, you have a shreck?? what a noob, just buy a pak instead and for the ammo that you save you can buy healthkits/grenades/lmgs.

[AmPM]

Pony is pretty much correct. I tried using a pair of schrek grens, then deleted them, got a 4th PaK and never looked back.

Extra muni's went into equipping all my other Grens with LMGs and adding upgrades and 2nd repair to a P4.

[8thRifleRegiment]

Yep shrecks just dont compare to piats just for the sole fact that piats can shoot without the risk of 1. Losing thier mans 2. Taking ANY damage 3. if your piat commandos, you can shoot then instant camo or shoot and stay camo if you pop smoke at the right time.

[lionel23]

I've brought this up to Groundfire in relation to the t3 unit unlock of fallschrimjager Tankbusters.

4 man squad, costs 250 MU to field, double shreks.  I asked him about why do I have to be forced into taking double shreks when I just want a single shrek.  His reply was as follows:

1) Its a design choice, and such that we cannot argue with the devs about their always right decisions.

2) Why do axis need versatility on their most powerful AT Infantry squad?

3) Why would you choose tank busters if you could buy 1 shrek on Falls Tankbusters? (my answer to that, I want to bloodly well airdrop them and use them to ambush without putting 250 MU behind enemy lines, also tank busters are not buffed via Falls doctrine choices).

4) Falls are an awesome unit, hence why they pay a premium in MU (120 x 2 = 240 MU, but they pay 250 MU for a squad that cannot move while cloaked like Storms, but apparently being airdroppable alone makes them cost more).

5) They have fewer men but they are tougher, fewer men is always better than more men like the allies.

6) You cannot balance across factions.

Those are just some of the reasons it seems Shreks will be stuck the way they are, and I tell you its maddening.  Groundfire or others may be happy to sink 250-300 MU into a single fragile squad that can be multi-man gibbed with very few 'bodies' to soak up hits like their allied counterpart, but I myself prefer to actually spread out AT for attrition sake.

I do agree that shreks in some cases need to come down over an ATG, just slightly and offer incentives to load out double shreks.  Bazookas are 55 MU a piece (under rangers they drop by 15 MU to 80), yet 2 shreks receives no discount for 'putting all your eggs in one basket'.

Just my viewpoint anyway.

[puddin]

I use Storm Shreks, and Commando Piats....

Want to knwo when piats get nasty?  When there is 3-4 on one of my squads, If i pick up a shreck or RR or Zook on my Piat Squad its GG. 

I would rather have Shrecks on my storms for the 300 Munions than the Piats just because of the ability to get the Hits. 

The Commandos with Vet and Piats get worse because instead of more scatter, you get les scatter with piats and they usually hit less.  You have to know when to fire a piat.... When the amror sees you thats when you fire because they all don;t roll straight they stop and try to reverse...

Heres the major difference...

Woith Shrecks i can scare Shermans and they have to run away, With P4s they could litterally run through me, and just do whatever they wanted...  But instead they liek to run from them.

I take armored cars vs piats all day long or pumas and its hilliarious, As long as you know you go in a straight line as fast as possible the piat almost always misses... Unless a stray one fires in a direction it was ment to miss then it hits.....

[brn4meplz]

Straight line is the worst for AC's and Puma's. I already had to prove to a few people that you can successfully Attack Ground anytime you like to kill those faster units.

[puddin]

anytime you want to test that thery ground i will be more than happy to hpop in a 1v1 and make sure to ahhiliate your piats sqauds