Home
Forum
Search
Login
Register
Account
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
Did you miss your
activation email?
November 02, 2024, 11:29:43 am
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Resources
Leaderboards
Unit Price Lists
Map List
Launcher status:
Players in chat: 1
Battles in progress: 0
Battles waiting: 5
Download the mod from Steam
Join our Discord server
Recent posts
Please don’t open this th...
by
Olazaika1
[
Yesterday
at 12:46:37 pm]
Required age ratings for ...
by
Unkn0wn
[October 05, 2024, 07:29:20 am]
50 minutes cap victory
by
Olazaika1
[September 05, 2024, 01:54:13 pm]
Feedback
by
Olazaika1
[July 16, 2024, 11:30:34 pm]
Anyone here still alive?
by
Olazaika1
[June 22, 2024, 06:49:40 am]
very glad to be signing u...
by
Olazaika1
[March 08, 2024, 12:13:38 am]
EiR:R ACA (Art Credits Ar...
by
Olazaika1
[March 08, 2024, 12:12:54 am]
Hello, New guy in the mod
by
Olazaika1
[March 08, 2024, 12:09:37 am]
CoH 3 Old Guard
by
chefarzt
[December 30, 2023, 08:00:58 pm]
KT got buffs, Rug stop hi...
by
LittleJoe
[February 04, 2023, 11:46:41 am]
Awards
2007
Mod of the Year
Editor's Choice
2008
Most Innovative Multiplayer
Nominee
Want to help promote Europe In Ruins? It's as easy as clicking here once a day!
Why?
COH: Europe In Ruins
>
Forum
>
EIR Main Forums
>
Balance & Design
>
Veterancy System Rework
Pages: [
1
]
Go Down
Print
Author
Topic: Veterancy System Rework (Read 5946 times)
0 Members and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.
Vermillion_Hawk
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1282
Veterancy System Rework
«
on:
April 26, 2011, 08:31:19 pm »
So the system of Europe in Ruins and veterancy (and by extension, the progression system in general) is inherently flawed. As it is, the best players will be able to raise tons of high-veterancy units and use them to destroy new players, or players who have a poorly-experienced army. The theory that players will "hold back" precious veteran units is in practice fairly untrue, as right now it's the veteran units leading the charge and crushing the enemy most of the time. This poses a problem, and the current solution to that is periodical wipes, which will evidently increase in frequency with the introduction of the warmap.
Now, first of all, the system of periodic wipes should NEVER be a permanent solution to this type of problem. It's a lazy fix for a problem that can be creatively overcome with a bit of hard work. I know that many players and myself find the idea of having our hard-earned units and company abilities vanish in the blink of an eye to be quite perturbing. I kind of feel betrayed with this system, as the website's front page clearly advertises "Complete persistency, All units retain vet, and continue to use it in their next battles."
My hypothetical solution to this problem is a simple change in the way veterancy works: make veteran units increase in resource cost and/or pool cost by increments per level. This solves the problem of players being able to load up on superior units that they've trained with no repercussions. Now players would have to choose: a small but elite group of highly trained specialists, or a horde of rookie units? This also opens up opportunities for additional levels of veterancy to be added to units, as with incremental costs it wouldn't be a complete benefit with no backlash.
An so that's my idea. I personally think it's a good idea but by all means, I encourage you people to criticize and comment.
Logged
What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets.
- Andre Malraux
- Dracula
EIRRMod
Administrator / Lead Developer
Posts: 11009
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #1 on:
April 26, 2011, 08:48:12 pm »
So picture this.
An army with 'tons of high-veterancy units' - including 2x Vet 3 Tigers in it, loses one or both Tigers.
The penalties to XP due to 'tons of high-veterancy units' - would make the new replacements so much slower to get back to Vet 3, unless said player removes (disbands or doesnt use for a while) some other high-vet units.
Logged
Quote from: brn4meplz
Shit I'm pretty sure you could offer the guy a cup of coffee and he'd try to kill you with the mug if you forgot sugar.
Quote from: tank130
That's like offering Beer to fuck the fat chick. It will work for a while, but it's not gonna last. Not only that, but there is zero motivation for the Fat chick to loose weight.
Quote from: tank130
Why don't you collect up your love beads and potpourri and find something constructive to do.
DarkSoldierX
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3015
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #2 on:
April 26, 2011, 09:03:15 pm »
A increase in cost totaly destroys the point of veterancy.
We do do wipes just that we are waiting until doc's come out and warmap is released. But those things arn't going the desired speed right now.
Logged
Quote from: nugnugx on June 03, 2011, 11:42:22 am
two words
atgs and fireflies
Looks who's butthurt
Quote from: BigDick on January 08, 2012, 06:47:44 am
*waiting* 4 DarkSoldierNoobiX pops up to prove how much shit the T17 is penetrating KTs back and Jagd front and how much better the ac/puma is penetrating m10 rear
Poppi
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1080
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #3 on:
April 26, 2011, 09:06:06 pm »
I actually dont mind wipes as much as other players. I mean when i lose a vet 3, alot of EIRR players tell me not to cry about it. So i guess EIRR players shouldnt care. unless their hypocrites.
BUt me being some sort of sociopath in some sense. Like the idea of having everyone wiped to zero, and equal playing field. I wish more games werent afraid to do it.
But second idea sounds cool too. And i was thinking about that as well. But im more concerned about spams than vets.
Logged
panzerman
EIR Veteran
Posts: 689
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #4 on:
April 26, 2011, 10:04:13 pm »
vet requirments should be doubled for all elite units and tanks.
would make vet 3 actually and acheivment as it doesn't seem to be atm.
Logged
AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #5 on:
April 26, 2011, 10:08:26 pm »
Picture this, vet is already barely worth getting on many units, things like infantry benefit you as much if you let them fight to the last man or more, fight till they die. Retreating a vet 3 that is 20% more damaging at 2 guys gives less performance than letting the remaining guys fight till they die.
Why would you ever make your army less efficient by paying for vet?
Logged
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
EIRRMod
Administrator / Lead Developer
Posts: 11009
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #6 on:
April 27, 2011, 02:25:29 am »
Quote from: DarkSoldierX on April 26, 2011, 09:03:15 pm
A increase in cost totaly destroys the point of veterancy.
Increase of cost in relation to total Vet-ups in company? Do tell?
Logged
smurfORnot
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4715
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #7 on:
April 27, 2011, 02:39:15 am »
dont be attached to vet,I dont care about vet,on 95% of stuff,and win most of the time...and facing vet is also not such big problem...when you learn to play better,you will find that to be true.
Logged
Demon767
Warmap Betatester
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6190
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #8 on:
April 27, 2011, 04:10:22 am »
nahh chill its his rookie mistake
there is no such viable tactic in eirr for "small but elite group" that explanation has been said over and over and over again and it bears no water.
infact, vet doesnt even help you basically, its benefits are so meagre that you trully dont ever notice it, espicially on infantry.
It is already proven to be far more effective for every unit on the field to be used to the last man, than retreating units thast are down totheir last 2 mans. fact.
Logged
Generalleutnant of The Reichs Wolves
Nevergetsputonlistguy767
spinn72
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1802
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #9 on:
April 27, 2011, 04:22:11 am »
Vet shouldn't be held on to, you really shouldn't try to keep it alive at the expense of losing a game. The mental thought of 'oh shit, i'm going to lose a 600xp KT' is enough to make most players throw games. Seasoned players try to use this against newer ones that are still obsessed with vet!
Logged
smurfORnot
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4715
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #10 on:
April 27, 2011, 04:27:12 am »
or sometimes u can win,cuz other team wants to KILL that vet 3 KT so bad,that that they will throw everything on it,and die in process...
Logged
panzerman
EIR Veteran
Posts: 689
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #11 on:
April 27, 2011, 04:28:58 am »
Quote from: smurfORnot on April 27, 2011, 04:27:12 am
or sometimes u can win,cuz other team wants to KILL that vet 3 KT so bad,that that they will throw everything on it,and die in process...
pretty sure thats why ampm kt is over 1000xp lol, everytime i have played with him he starts with it and the game ends up defending the thing from the middle of the map...
Logged
Vermillion_Hawk
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1282
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #12 on:
April 28, 2011, 01:18:42 pm »
Quote from: EIRRMod on April 26, 2011, 08:48:12 pm
So picture this.
An army with 'tons of high-veterancy units' - including 2x Vet 3 Tigers in it, loses one or both Tigers.
The penalties to XP due to 'tons of high-veterancy units' - would make the new replacements so much slower to get back to Vet 3, unless said player removes (disbands or doesnt use for a while) some other high-vet units.
Perhaps in this case a system could be implemented alongside the one I mentioned, where Veteran units can be "revived" for a PP cost that is dependant on the unit type and level of veterancy?
Logged
AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #13 on:
April 28, 2011, 01:53:27 pm »
Quote from: panzerman on April 27, 2011, 04:28:58 am
pretty sure thats why ampm kt is over 1000xp lol, everytime i have played with him he starts with it and the game ends up defending the thing from the middle of the map...
This. KT is epic hardpoint. Ive had so much suicides at it.
Logged
brn4meplz
Misinformation Officer
Posts: 6952
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #14 on:
April 28, 2011, 02:17:14 pm »
and you want a second one...
Logged
He thinks Tactics is a breath mint
Quote from: Unkn0wn on July 31, 2012, 03:50:15 am
Wow I think that was the nicest thing brn ever posted!
Quote from: Bear on June 19, 2013, 01:24:59 pm
the pussy of a prostitute is not tight enough for destroy a condom
Vermillion_Hawk
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1282
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #15 on:
April 28, 2011, 03:52:11 pm »
Also, I disagree with the theory that veteran units are completely useless compared to regular units. My vet 3 riflemen are much more survivable against infantry than my other riflesquads, and output much better damage too. Veteran tanks can also be quite potent, what with recieved penetration bonuses and penetration/damage bonuses.
And if the general consensus among many experienced players is that veteran units are not that good, perhaps they should be! You should be rewarded for getting a vet 3 unit, and if they add in new veterancy levels like I mentioned in my original suggestion, it would make them all the more better than the average unit.
Logged
TheIcelandicManiac
Resident forum troll. Fucked unkn0wns mom
Posts: 6294
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #16 on:
April 28, 2011, 04:04:32 pm »
You should see vet 3 TankBuster Squads with Stalingrad Vets while in Buildings, The enemy thinks it can beat it but nope, If the rifles dont kill them the zrecks will.
Logged
Quote from: Grundwaffe
Soon™
Quote from: Shabtajus on May 18, 2013, 02:16:45 am
gj icelandic i am proud of u
Quote from: aeroblade56 on June 21, 2013, 11:47:37 am
Sometimes its like PQ doesnt carrot all.
Work Harder
Vermillion_Hawk
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1282
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #17 on:
April 28, 2011, 04:43:43 pm »
Quote from: TheIcelandicManiac on April 28, 2011, 04:04:32 pm
You should see vet 3 TankBuster Squads with Stalingrad Vets while in Buildings, The enemy thinks it can beat it but nope, If the rifles dont kill them the zrecks will.
Hey, I wasn't saying veteran units are bad, I was just stating that the community's general consensus seems to be that they are only marginally better than regular units. I personally like veteran units over regular units, and they can be greatly improved over the originals in some situations.
Logged
AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #18 on:
April 28, 2011, 05:13:40 pm »
Its not that vet does nothing, its that unless you fight to the end with your vet you often counteract its bonus. This spokes mostly to infantry.
Vet 3 grens have slightly higher health, accuracy and damage. You want to keep the squad alive to retain vet, retreat at 2 guys if under fire.
Vet 0, never retreat. Fights for 2 times as long, provides cheap 1 pop gut to hold sectors, etc. He fires till he is dead.
You get more combat power and utility out of the vet 0 squad all said and done.
Tanks are a different matter, they do the sesame damage until dead. However the willingness to throw a tank away to break the enemy wins games.
Logged
Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: Veterancy System Rework
«
Reply #19 on:
April 28, 2011, 05:20:52 pm »
it seems the general consensus that vet units aren't as great as vet 0 unit yet and still vet hunting exists. I even played a game where I saw the user of a tank switch it's gun to fire at a vet 3 recon tommy rather than fire at the vet 1 bren tommy which was coming to button it. It got the shot off and killed 2 yet got buttoned and destroyed.
If anything, Vet is a handy distraction
I think Vet is best on tanks and artillery, infantry is okay if you get it great, it can be useful if you lose it, oh well, you can get more.
Worst on support units and light vehicles while easy to get, also very easy to lose.
Last thing. Vetted infantry also kinda use their effectiveness in another point, since they are vet, they become huge targets thus you spend a lot of time dodging fire with those units cuz they're being chased while an unvetted unit wont get that same treatment.
Logged
Quote from: nikomas on October 04, 2012, 09:26:33 pm
"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"
Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
Pages: [
1
]
Go Up
Print
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
News & Introductions
-----------------------------
=> Updates & Announcements
=> EIR Boot Camp
===> In Other Languages
=====> In Chinese
=====> In German
=====> In Spanish
=====> In Polish
=====> In French
=====> In Norwegian
=> New Players
-----------------------------
EIR Main Forums
-----------------------------
=> General Discussion
=> Tactics & Strategy
=> Balance & Design
=> Broadcasts & Replays
=> Projects & Mapping
=> Technical Support
===> Bug Reporting
-----------------------------
General Forums
-----------------------------
=> General Discussion
=> Other Games
TinyPortal v1.0 beta 4 ©
Bloc
Loading...