[PE/WHR] panther

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[panzerman]

i love panthers and they are great tanks but of recent i have found them to not be as capable as they were. one thing that really gets me is US armour HVAP gives pershing a bonus vs all heavies including the panther. i really find that it should't be included in with the the other axis heavies as it doesn't have the massive health and the great armour which isn't so great atm as i don't see it bouncing heaps of the frontal armour anymore.

to sum it all up something has changed and i feel like the panther needs some love.
true it did get a price decrease.

[AmPM]

The problem is that so many things buff penetration these days, and the armor value is the ONLY thing that made the Panther good.

Now, it's like any other medium tank, except it sucks vs infantry.

[DarkSoldierX]

Panther is fine since price/pop decease. Hvap pershing has been getting 10% dmg bonus instead of the 35% its supposed to get.

[Tymathee]

Yeah it got a price decrease, kills everything very well but pershings and has 742 health.

Oh and it has great speed, .60 acc vs all infantry, longer range than all medium and heavy tanks, plus tank destroyers.

To be honest, you should be able to kite the heck out of a pershing. 47.5 range vs 40

[AmPM]

Yeah it got a price decrease, kills everything very well but pershings and has 742 health.

Oh and it has great speed, .60 acc vs all infantry, longer range than all medium and heavy tanks, plus tank destroyers.

To be honest, you should be able to kite the heck out of a pershing. 47.5 range vs 40

Oh yea Tym, it is EPIC vs things like Infantry and ATG crews right?

The only thing it does better than a P4 is fight Tanks...get a PaK/STuG/Tiger/KT instead.

If the MG was better and the tanks wasn't so Mu heavy it might be a better choice outside of TH.

[panzerman]

really think ampm is right the penetration buffs everything is getting, understandable for fighting super heavies making it a little easier for you, but it destroyed the effectiveness of things like the panther and p4. to fight 1v1 with a sherman upgun or RCA crom, they both do enough damage vs a panther and clean up inf super effectively.

[Tymathee]

Oh yea Tym, it is EPIC vs things like Infantry and ATG crews right?

The only thing it does better than a P4 is fight Tanks...get a PaK/STuG/Tiger/KT instead.

If the MG was better and the tanks wasn't so Mu heavy it might be a better choice outside of TH.

hes comparing it versus the pershing not the p4 get off my nuts you feel like you gotta reply in every comment I make? does it make your e-peen bigger?

and panzerman, the panther could never beat the pershing straight on really. its made to be a panther killer

and a panther would rape a cromwell, it's worse than a 75mm sherman, only advantage it really has is it's boost.

[BigDick]

i say change pricing of pershing and tiger a bit

currently the panther is okish priced in its role fighting tanks up to shermans

the problem starts when dual pershing companies hit the field...pershings are almost same price and rape armor and infantry

making tigers a bit more expensive will also make the p4 and panther a bit more attractive

conclusion: tiger and pershing needs a price increase that will fix that 99% of armor and blitz companies will only use tigers and pershings

[Malgoroth]

People generally pick armor and blitz because they WANT to use Tigers and Pershings. Coercing them into using different units by raising the price seems like the wrong way to go about it.

I think AmPM hit it pretty close when he said it's the abundance of bonus penetration abilities that hurts the panther.  

I, however, think the panther is almost fine for what it does... Shermans/croms/churchills aren't going to touch it unless used in large numbers and that's what the panther was primarily meant to counter. Axis have enough units that punish Pershings, so the panther doesn't need a boost in that department (it's hardly useless against Pershings anyway. Just don't expect it to go 1v1). The fact that there's so much now that penetrate them is what makes them physically weaker than they should be.

[panzerman]

maybe we should test hardcap of 1 tiger/pershing in each company, same price... make shermans, p4's more abudant.

[AmPM]

Then it's an even easier choice of KT with Gren/KCH spam.

Blitz is only used because of dual Tiger 90% of the time. Having to invest muni's into medium armor that loses to a Sherman because you increase the price is silly.

Sherman needs to go back to the vCoH RoF, and reduce the pen bonus doctrine abilities.

[spinn72]

Blitz is only used because of dual Tiger 90% of the time. Having to invest muni's into medium armor that loses to a Sherman because you increase the price is silly.

Oh, the sad truth in this.
When will people learn that Lightning war is the best t4 in the mod

[Tymathee]

raise pershing and tiger mp to about 700-800, raise kt to 900-1000.

[AmPM]

raise pershing and tiger mp to about 700-800, raise kt to 900-1000.

lol, only if you raise M10, FF, ATG MP cost as well to balance it.

[Tymathee]

lol, only if you raise M10, FF, ATG MP cost as well to balance it.

oh look, i quoted both axis and allied vehicles and you jump on the allied ones, so bias.

If you read, you'd have noticed I was just goin off BD and Mal's suggestions of raising price on heavy tanks, so instead of being a stupid troll you could've actually made a significant contribution to this thread.

The price raise isn't to cripple the unit but to cripple its support. Ever heard the phrase "a heavy tank is only as good as its support"

[Malgoroth]

When will people learn that Lightning war is the best t4 in the mod

When you start using it more often and wtfpwning people till they cry that it's OP and the forum becomes awash with 'NERF LIGHTNING WAR OMG!" posts.

So... hop to it.

BTW Tym... I wasn't aware that only allies had access to ATGs...

Raising the prices on the heavies is a bad idea. It's only a heavy handed swipe at people who prefer to use those units when those units aren't OP to begin with, no is their support. It's unnecessary.  

[Tymathee]

it was only an idea, not a suggestion tbh.

[BigDick]

raise pershing and tiger mp to about 700-800, raise kt to 900-1000.

the KT is already at 920mp and almost 700fuel and overpriced compared to tigers and pershings

but yeah you as allied player can't know this  


tiger and pershing could need 30 more fuel or something and +100-200 mp

would prevent these dual pershing + maingun calli companies too

[nugnugx]

to sum it all up something has changed and i feel like the panther needs some love.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=18653.0

[Malgoroth]

tiger and pershing could need 30 more fuel or something and +100-200 mp

would prevent these dual pershing + maingun calli companies too

You could do that by locking out the calliope when unlocking Pershings or vice-versa. A price increase isn't going to balance anything. It's just an unjustified nerf.