Bren Button & Jagdtiger

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[AmPM]

Vermillion is correct on that one, The ability is easy as hell to dodge if you aint an Newb and all of the time is that the squad is stationary so you can just run to it or trow a grenade to disable the button itself.

Then you fail to understand the use of Button.

Like a sticky, it is a deterrent to a rush by armored vehicles into your lines. As such, it keeps the enemy nicely placed in front of your ATGs, which means they cannot kite your infantry with their tank either. Proceed to knock out enemy mortars with Offmaps/25lbr/Mortarpit and crawl forward.

Rushing a tank to try and button/sticky is retarded, their only job is to keep said tank away from your ATG.

[Vermillion_Hawk]

It was the single best, and cheapest way of defending territory against ANY armored vehicle. How is that not an issue?

It's so incredibly easy to use, and required little to no skill to pull off a button. I agree the current version is over nerfed slightly, but it doesn't need to go back to the base values.

The Bren is also a great weapon when you use it right, at long and medium range with an LT backing your tommy horde.

Well I guess you were just terrible at avoiding them. Next time, use: infantry support, artillery support, light vehicle support, pretty much anything really. The only way you could possibly let your tank be killed by a button is by going all Rambo and sending it out alone. But of course, if the mighty, flawless AmPm says an ability is OP, it must be so, since his immutable word is law, right?

[AmPM]

That same exact thing can be said for any unit in the game....OH NO! Your ability can be COUNTERED by other units!!! Holy shit!!!

Button + ATG is super effective, multipurpose, and cheap.

It's not like it operates in a vacuum either.

Button does not need to kill your tank, the ATG will more than do that. Button is there to prevent a tank from rushing your ATG + HMG + Tommy Bren + Staghound position and raping it solo. Back it all up with a FOO Cpt or Offmaps for lolz.

At the end of the day, any unit can be countered, which is how it should be.

[Vermillion_Hawk]

Well in that case AmPm, I apologize that you lack the skill or ingenuity to avoid such a cookie-cutter, obvious strategy.

[Katusha]

Well in that case AmPm, I apologize that you lack the skill or ingenuity to avoid such a cookie-cutter, obvious strategy.

Maybe you can teach him out of your extensive experience..?

[Unkn0wn]

AMPM highlights the reason why we decided to rework Button.

[AmPM]

Well in that case AmPm, I apologize that you lack the skill or ingenuity to avoid such a cookie-cutter, obvious strategy.

There are counters, but there are counters to counters. So going into a competition to design counters to every situation is stupid.

Needless to say, Button + ATG = dead tank. It uses less pop than a tank, so leaves you with plenty to counter their counters.

L2P

[Unkn0wn]

That being said though, Button is receiving some finetuning this patch. Ultimately we are aiming at making it less of an 'instant shutdown' ability and still allow the tank's gun to be used (albeit with worse accuracy).

It'll still be great if a player decides to mindlessly charge into a button + ATG set-up or gets caught off-guard in general but a player that is paying attention will no longer just have their tank instantly shut down the moment a button squad comes in range.

[Vermillion_Hawk]

If the player was paying attention, the Bren squad wouldn't get into range in the first place.

[AmPM]

You fail to understand...button does not need to get into range. You keep the enemy from circling the ATG, which button has MORE than enough range to do. It's sole purpose is to keep the enemy in front of you and not circling you.

[Unkn0wn]

Which essentially prevents any type of aggressive (vehicle) tactics from being used against the British.

[8thRifleRegiment]

exactly button as it was before was too ridiuclous, it renderd 1 tank pretty much useless. Any competant player who gets an enemy tank buttoned= dead tank.
it should up there as deterant from rushing atgs against thr brits not a be all end all to any of your tanks

[Katusha]

- Button rework:
      range increased to 35
      hull/coaxial mg disabled, 0 sight, 0.25 main gun accuracy, 0.5 acceleration
      0-5s: 0.75 max speed
      5-10s: 0.5 max speed
      10-15s: 0.25 max speed, 0.25 acceleration

should be

      range: 30
      hull/coaxial mg disabled, 0 sight, 0.25 main gun accuracy, 0.5 acceleration
      0-3s: 0.75 max speed
      3-7s: 0.5 max speed
      7-15s: 0.25 max speed, 0.25 acceleration

in my opinion, although i don't even know what it was before the change, so i cant compare it to that

[spinn72]

Exactly. Finally, a constructive post. At least Katusha put up some numbers. I don't mind those, I just don't get why an ability would only decrease enemy movement by 25% when it involves getting an infantry squad so close to a tank. For 25% i'm more inclined to drop all my bren squads and just get more basic AI and AT counters.

It's like nobody notices anything about the speed of tanks in this mod!

This thread isn't about the whine of an allied I win button, button isn't a core ability to my british gameplay, but to have it become completely useless is just stupid.

Axis tanks have always had to look out for allied infantry, whether it be rifles or brens for the fear of button/stickies. Now you KNOW brens have button, so you should always be avoiding them in the first place. The increased price of ATG's was to get them out of the metagame, but when you severely fuck up an integral ability to many british players' gameplay, they're just gonna drop the brens and field more!

AmPm, WM are probably the easiest faction to play IMO. Saying brits are easymode is personal preference and doesn't really have any place being in a balance discussion.

Anyway, I'm going to tweak my suggestion from the first post in this thread and change it to:

      range: 30
      hull/coaxial mg disabled, 0 sight, 0.25 main gun accuracy, 0.5 acceleration
      0-10s: 0.6 max speed
      10-15s: 0.3 max speed, 0.25 acceleration

I mean really, nobody is ever going to be in button for more than 10s.

[Katusha]

I mean really, nobody is ever going to be in button for more than 10s.

That's why I still think button should have 3 stages, first is weak, second stage is medium cripple, and third is complete cripple for being retarded and not backing away. And range certainly should not be 35. Should be like 25-30, but a stronger ability than now, but weaker than it was originally.

A player shouldn't have 10 seconds to back away from button or kill the squad, that's what I mean.

[Demon767]

Americans are easiest to play

[GORKHALI]

I think Berg tiger should get  88's 105 shell explosion with same damage, then we see ally go RAGE i mean RAGEEE 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

Sure, give the Bergetiger the 105 shell explosion... just leave it without a gun.

[Mysthalin]

If the player was paying attention, the Bren squad wouldn't get into range in the first place.

Learn to read. Button was not a problem in the sense that button squads would run up and chase tanks down to get them killed. Because that would be a RETARDED THING TO DO.

Button was a problem because it completely and utterly disallowed the axis to use vehicles in attacking British positions. To be able to kill an AT gun with a vehicle you need to circle it. For that, you need to be close. If there is a button squad nearby - you can't circle the AT gun to kill it, and are forced to use artillery to dislodge the very simplistic combination of ATG + bren squad.

And that is a massive problem to gameplay.

[Tymathee]

Not really because axis have a lot of other options in order to take out atg's rather than circle stafing. mortars, schrecks, mp40's, tigers and kt's do an excellent job of taking them out head on. nebel's, 88's, mht's, flamers, assault grens, etc.

if anything axis are masters at de-crewing and destroying atgs more so than the allies. so to say button was broken because it hindered the axis from circle stafing atg's, which is the allies best form of anti tank, is ludicrous.