Military spending, and stuff

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[Unkn0wn]

^ Why America can't have nice things.

[Unkn0wn]

How many threads have been cut out of the Oslo thread?

Too many

[Unkn0wn]

less spending = more money nuff said chigwo

It also means you're doing less.

[Groundfire]

Jodo, I wouldnt trust our government to tell us how much it's actual military budget is. It certainly is not 2-3%.

Also, the US taxcode is pretty much written for the fortune 100 to be exempt from it. I think Google reported 2% corporate tax last year, but dont quote me on that.

The "Rich" being taxed more is a misnomer, it's the guy making over 100k a year that is getting fucked, but he is not rich, he's middle class. The real wealth disparity in the US goes something like this and none of the top pay their taxes at all:



The brackets dont go that high. Those 1% people could write us all a million dollar check for the rest of their lives and still not expend their fortunes.

[deadbolt]

i made a piechart relevant to the thread:

[Unkn0wn]

Racist

[deadbolt]

[Jodomar]

My father is in the top 1%, so you must mean the .0001% that can afford to give everyone a million dollars and still be fine. That chart is irrelevant to who pay the most taxes. Google is a corporation not a real person, the tax is different for them. Besides most of the corporations not paying taxes is the governmants own fault for making subsidies that these corps take advantage of. about 40% of my fathers pay goes to taxes so don't sit here and say they don't pay enough. How much would you rage if almost half of what you made wen to wastefull spending? I would be pretty pissed! Most people would not do what it takes to make the big bucks. 14 hour long days 7 days a week for years untill you make something decent. I would say they deserve that money for doing what it takes and not being a lazzy bum who wants to suckle at the tit of the rich because they don't have the balls to go out and make something of themselves.

[Unkn0wn]

If you're dad is paying 40% of his wage on taxes he's probably not part of the 1% richest, LOL.
Do you have any idea how much money the 1% richest Americans make? (And how few they are in numbers?)

I somehow very much doubt your dad is a part of that 1%, or even of the 10% wealthiest americans.


If I made millions a year I wouldn't all be too butt hurt about having to 'give away' 40% of it.


Also:

A remarkable study (Norton & Ariely, 2010) reveals that Americans have no idea that the wealth distribution (defined for them in terms of "net worth") is as concentrated as it is. When shown three pie charts representing possible wealth distributions, 90% or more of the 5,522 respondents -- whatever their gender, age, income level, or party affiliation -- thought that the American wealth distribution most resembled one in which the top 20% has about 60% of the wealth. In fact, of course, the top 20% control about 85% of the wealth

Seems like the average American citizen needs to wake up and smell the injustice.

[Groundfire]

Wasnt trying to offend you or anything jodo.

I quote Google because corporations like that are just a means of wealth generation just like every company. If they dont pay taxes then their CEOs mostly pocket the rest. That's a very blanket statement and im sure everyone's situation is different.

If your dad is feeling the sting of an income tax, I dont think he's in the top 1%. There are only a couple thousand of these people living now and their source of wealth generation surpasses that of most countries and it's all passive income.

It's these people at the top, they are the kind that influence governments. We all know the fortunes of Carlos Slim, David Rockafeller, Bill Gates, etc. ect. but do you have any comprehension of the kind of wealth the Rothchilds may have? It's mind boggling that these people exist on a cloud above the rest of us. They are above taxation from us mere mortals.

[roflmao]

Some things to note:

America also has the most progressive tax system in the world among OECD countries. The rich in our country already pay more than practically every "socialist" European country.

Top 1% pay more than bottom 95%.

A few problems though. First is that because of our utterly stupid tax system that costs us billions a year just to run the fricken thing, there are so many loopholes in the system that these big companies end up avoiding having to pay taxes which is why when Reagan lowered tax rates the rich paid more taxes. Rich pay more when incentives to hide income are reduced.

Adopting a much simpler tax system would fix so many of these problems. Adopt a fair tax where only consumption is taxed. There, you have a progressive system that works.

The government is big enough. The whole "tax the rich" thing has been one huge smoke screen for a bigger government for decades. It's not that I'm against taxing the rich a larger percentage than the poor, it's just that I'm against making something that should be much smaller even bigger.

Then, the second point I wanted to make is that the rich today are not the same as the rich 20 years ago which are not the same as the rich 30 years ago and so on. Because of America's dynamic economy, people bounce back and forth between the top 1%. Income inequality is significant, but everyone has the chance to become rich.


Oh, and for the record, I'm totally for slashing military spending (as well as social programs).

[3rdCondor]

This is a breeding ground for trolls

[Poppi]

ive seen how people with billions of dollars or even people with above 10 million dollars spend their money.
I have no problem taxing them more after seeing that stuff.

They say taxing the rich hurts the creator of jobs... please they spend about $100,000 a year on food just for 2 dogs. Enough money to higher 2 grad students.

[Jodomar]

How about you refer to my pie chart for further details:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[jackmccrack]

can barely read dat sh*t

[Heartmann]

Why does one need military???

Seriously its a valid question? Its a stupid thing to have int the modern world, ofc saying something as Naive as "Lets al get along" is Frekkin nuts, but having a huge Fucking Gun isnt something that exactly breeds unison.

I agree that there needs to be demands, in EU and Scandinavia there are several of these rules, Getting social welfare has several demands, having to Speak The NATIVE LANGUAGE is one OFC (oh sorry not in the states) Looking for and applying for no less than 5 jobs a week! Going to a weekly seminar there are about 3 more of these i know for Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Even Finland, I know this because on my way to educating my self to become i therapist i have to get a bachelors in Social welfare program so i pretty much get these figures and laws banged into me every day.

I also want to know where al the figures ppl are getting come from, what i heard there are about 30 different statistical overviews on what the situation and current spending is in the states. (Wiki does not count for one, seeing that it is something that the guy whom recently wrote about how apples can cure cancer also edited battle star galactica) and any internet pages tied to the respective parties Dem. Or Rep. is obviously in question since the American trust worthiness of there parties is in question in whole. Try finding numbers also not from Fox news, since that is just as laughable.

But to get back to the point, do we as a people, the human race real need a standing military??? I mean what is the point in today's modern society? Yes there are people who want to kill, destroy and bomb you but seeing as these consist of extremists that don't really number up to more than a couple of thousands( I don't know if that's the case but from what i have read and know from general knowledge the "Baddies" don't really feel like they are more than that BUT feel free to correct me) Do we really need a hundred thousand strong army?
I mean most of these "Terrorists" are guerrilla stile fighting warfare, they are designed to take on a huge army, its like trying to pick up a grain of sand using a baseball glove. Why not just scale down the military and make it efficient, and yes cut down the oversees military bases, invest in an international joint operation like UN share THE BILL as it where if you think its good deterrent for having people to stop fighting. But again, pointing guns at people to make them stop doing things is not really a solution. If people want to kill each other they find a way they always do, so it would be better to try and either let the just get on with it OR give money to groups whom are willing to spend time and energy on finding another way!

Social Welfare with demands will at least insure that the inside of the country as a WHOLE will be a better place, but men with bigger guns wont make it nicer, just lots and lots of people who are afraid.


 

[AmPM]

Agreed Heartmann, but with the way the world works, the UN and any multinational force set by it is worthless.

The UN can't even grow the balls to contain genocide in Africa or to actually deliver aid to the people that need it.

To scale back our military spending I am all for dropping military aid, international bases, etc. What I am against is that when military spending does get cut in reality, it doesn't effect those things, and it means the guys on the ground don't get supplied with body armor or up to date weaponry.

[Heartmann]

If Africa wants to kill itself then let it do so, go after the countries than supply them arms instead!
OR
Just let it rot until people see the need for cooperation.

The UN as an idea works, the reason it does not work right now is because of the Veto power held by the 5 countries, US, UK, France, China and Russia, that needs to GO

And The big spending should drop, get rid of the missile silos, and just supply the armed forces with UAVs and highly trained in body AND mind! AND WELL equipped soldiers, instead of an en masse grunts with no idea why or what they are doing.

[AmPM]

If Africa wants to kill itself then let it do so, go after the countries than supply them arms instead!
OR
Just let it rot until people see the need for cooperation.

The UN as an idea works, the reason it does not work right now is because of the Veto power held by the 5 countries, US, UK, France, China and Russia, that needs to GO

And The big spending should drop, get rid of the missile silos, and just supply the armed forces with UAVs and highly trained in body AND mind! AND WELL equipped soldiers, instead of an en masse grunts with no idea why or what they are doing.

That is the direction the ARMY is going, sadly, it's impossible to pry the money out of the hands of the Airforce and Navy...

UAVs, and personal equipment are the way of the future. However, we do need to maintain strategic assets as well, just in case there is a shift in the world metagame.

[Heartmann]

No you dont need to keep anything!

That trail of thought AM is just what we are used to since the Cold War days, (That bugger has a big gun, so i need a bigger one JUST IN CASE he uses his) Dont you see that is a really really bad idea?

We dont NEED more fear and deterrents, we NEED reasons for Cooperation not Annihilation.

If anyone is stupid enough in this day and age to try and start a War, then they will have the enitre rest of the world on there ass, since its pretty IMPOSSIBLE in this day and age of the Globalized society, since we are all almost interdependent.