Why Are Allies "Boring" to Play?

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[Audemed]

So, with all the topics that are directly or indirectly about this point, I figured it was worth a thread to work out reasons + solutions.

Reason #1: Lack of preservable armor. One of the fun things you can do with the axis factions is get a tank (panther, tiger, superheavy, or even a pz4) and it's survivable enough to be able to build up to vet 3 and keep going for a good long while. Allies have this in only the Pershing and Jumbo, both of which have downfalls (pershing is a gimped tiger on all fronts, only really useful with 1 T4,  Jumbo can't deal damage for shit). More ready access to heavier armor would make the game more interesting, definitely, and it's not like a change from 5 disposable M10's would be unwelcome by axis players.

Reason #2: Lack of special-use infantry. Americans have ROFLmen. Hordes of ROFLmen. AB are great, but the doctrine (or lack of) can only really be played in one way: AB blob, optimally with as many 2-man squads as possible for highest alpha, with a pair of AB snipers. Rangers are semi-useful, but too situational at times, and far too expensive (210 munis for full package? FFS). Armor gets elite engies that are again, very niche. The worst part, is all AI infantry play the same--close in, do as much damage as you can, and retreat. There's no sneeky dudes, no long range dudes, no real specialized infantry. Brits are...brits. I'll let someone else comment on them.

Reason #3: Assault. Seriously, retreat forcing abilities (bar/g43 suppression as well) have no place in EIR, IMO.

More reasons? Thoughts? Comments?

[Katusha]

Hellcats seem pretty easy to vet nowadays.. and i don't see why you mention a P4 as a preservable tank but not a sherman? Yes allies only get pershing and jumbo for heavy tanks, I agree on that

Idk imo as little as possible should be changed, creates more work and more shit to balance

[Tymathee]

Because they have more diverse, hard hitting toys. Heavy tanks, storms, pak50's, g wagons, marders. Axis just hit hard when they strike while the allies always have to nit pick in a lot of areas.

[Audemed]

and i don't see why you mention a P4 as a preservable tank but not a sherman?

Cloaking AT. Sure, you can fire up and try to ninja a retreating pz4, but it's way easier to sneak up a pak to the flank, or pair of dual-shreck storms and 1-shot it. Hell, even a pair of falls fausts deal a significant ammount of dmg. FSJ TB have cloak to get close, then sprint to catch up!

[Smokaz]

This is 99% conjecture. Allies aren't less fun to play really. But, sometimes players might get a impression that the allied game is more centered around mindless spam than the axis ones where lone "hero" squads are murdering 20-30 riflemen and big tanks are sitting in the middle, immobilized but victorious after one hell of a game. That I can agree about.

[AmPM]

Because they have more diverse, hard hitting toys. Heavy tanks, storms, pak50's, g wagons, marders. Axis just hit hard when they strike while the allies always have to nit pick in a lot of areas.

Lol, tell my rifles they aren't hard hitting. Hellcats are amazingly easy to vet if you want to. Allies are fun if you get into the army, I love my infantry, would do another armour coy but grinding sucks.

[brn4meplz]

I only build fun companies that I enjoy playing.

All my companies have a heavy micro component to them. Saying that Allies are boring for me is a lie. I'm always busy microing something. Granted I'm not an infantry player(I can use them but prefer a Tank or light vehicle for the same situation)

M18 and M10 micro and usage are some of the most fun things I do with my American companies

[Audemed]

I only build fun companies that I enjoy playing.

All my companies have a heavy micro component to them. Saying that Allies are boring for me is a lie. I'm always busy microing something. Granted I'm not an infantry player(I can use them but prefer a Tank or light vehicle for the same situation)

M18 and M10 micro and usage are some of the most fun things I do with my American companies

But is it as fun as your axis companies?

TBH I have 3 lvl 9 US companies, but only 1 lvl 9 axis, my luft. I prefer luft to ALL of them (<3 falls and panthers), but I hardly ever get to play it because axis is (almost) always full.

OT: I only have 1 FSJ marksman left, more points pleeeeeaaaaaaaazeeeeeee. Will write multiple page guide on him.

[AmPM]

I prefer my Infantry Company, as I said I love armour, but can't be asked to grind to 9 again.

My Infantry company is highly vetted and fun to play, but I've been trying to make stormtroopers perform well lately. Mostly though I don't even play EIR, pandering to the low end players has made the game dull and spam filled.

[EIRRMod]

My Infantry company is highly vetted and fun to play, but I've been trying to make stormtroopers perform well lately. Mostly though I don't even play EIR, pandering to the low end players has made the game dull and spam filled.

Wow, pandering to the low end players?  How so.

My mechanics have always attempted to make spam reduced, and cater to the SKILLED players while not actually leaving the low end players out.

Just after thoughts on the matter, not a whinge

[AmPM]

Ill be on in about an hour and 15 if youatte around. Hard to do good posts on my phone. Ill be playing HoN in vent.

[brn4meplz]

Wow, pandering to the low end players?  How so.

My mechanics have always attempted to make spam reduced, and cater to the SKILLED players while not actually leaving the low end players out.

Just after thoughts on the matter, not a whinge

I can sum that up pretty well. "Less offmaps" I know eventually the warmap will limit this pretty well but alot of the complaints lately boil down to Offmaps destroying any position skill may have earned you.

[Audemed]

Especially considering the power of some of the offmaps (earthshaker? LOL!).

3 capt FOO with the 2 min reduction is also WONDERFUL to face.

[brn4meplz]

Well On-Map artillery options, even those utilizied through the Captain and Def. Officer can be killed or avoided with good reactions. Earth Shaker is definitely strong with Drift.

[EIRRMod]

Ill be on in about an hour and 15 if youatte around. Hard to do good posts on my phone. Ill be playing HoN in vent.

I'll be on in ~2.5 hrs =/

[EIRRMod]

I can sum that up pretty well. "Less offmaps" I know eventually the warmap will limit this pretty well but alot of the complaints lately boil down to Offmaps destroying any position skill may have earned you.

Honestly, I enjoy offmaps.  However, atm they are like 'freebies' - which should not be the case.  There must be some sort of consequence / cost (other than 'a doctrine unlock cost') to rectify this.

[AmPM]

I will still be on lol.

To add something to brns post, doctrines are too well rounded.

[spinn72]

Tbh what you get with Allies is diversity with EACH doctrine. An AB player will have a different build completely to an Armour player, likewise with an RE player compared to a commando player.

IMO Axis factions lack substance. Eg. terror/blitz/defensive companies will still have the same armour options, the same infantry options. Same with PE. You have to field Marders/Panthers if you're SE/Luft which is.. unoriginal and repetitive at best. So what if allies don't have anything heavy in the armour department? They have the most diverse range of elite infantry available.

^ coming from someone who plays allies almost exclusively nowdays, however . Axis are so much easier to play atm which is probably a large factor as to why people are playing them. eg. my CPM with allies is between 90-130 per minute, whereas with axis it sits around 60-80 lawl.

[Audemed]

Well On-Map artillery options, even those utilizied through the Captain and Def. Officer can be killed or avoided with good reactions. Earth Shaker is definitely strong with Drift.

I don't mind def officer nearly as much as FOO, tbh.

[Tymathee]

Honestly, I enjoy offmaps.  However, atm they are like 'freebies' - which should not be the case.  There must be some sort of consequence / cost (other than 'a doctrine unlock cost') to rectify this.

Make them cost munitions and/or be tied to a unit just like the captain. It could open up a potentially fun mode called "protect the commander" where you have to protect ur officer unit or you lose.

or open back up the in-game xp system and you earn xp towards using your off map by capping, killing and even dying :|