Balance vs Unbalance, a summary of thought

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[nugnugx]

Unbalance:

First of all let us go back some time, when EIR was not as balanced as it is currently, pre 2009 times.Games were usualy hectic, a lot of things were called OP, other were UP, creating frustration, tension on one side and sense of achievement and feeling of superiority on the other side.Those feelings are well known as -emotions-.You -knew- that when you will play vs airborne you will fight vs some OP sh** like offmaps that could decimate your whole callin and the callin of your partner and the callin of your partners partner.You -knew- that assault raid was OP as sh** for a minute and a callin of airborne from the sky at the center of your units would decimate you if you did not had a doom fort with 3 other guys.
Same was for other side, people feared Terror because simply it was annoying when you lost 4 of your callins of shermans at start or your Pershings.EIR back then was more of a psychological warfare.Before even you started the game you had certain feelings with which you would come on to the battlefield.You knew that in order to kill 3 KT's you need to sacrifice all of your 50 suicide rifle squads and your partners AB squads, but the satisfaction after that was much greater because you also knew that when you've done it the game is over with victory for your side.
Games were back then an act of skill as much as an act of luck. I'd say the percentage was evenly distributed between 50% 50%. You needed 50% of your skill and 50% of luck to win. Luck came from the OP and UP stuff.You needed your skill to know how to use them effectively.Both sides had those so in some weird way it would balance itself out.Who are we to judge but maybe in some twisted way it was FLDashs intention of balance? Creating unbalance for the sake of balance? We have to admit that in some weird way - it clicked and worked in the way that games were hugely enjoyable(or frustrating) and everyone who played in those times says this aswell.Sometimes you'd be mad for the OP stuff that killed you, and in other battle you'd be glad for the OP stuff that you've won with.EIR was playing with our emotions, it would suck you in like a vortex to reach that vet 3 KT at the end of the tunnel, and when you lost it to that 30 assault raid AB RR spam it would spit you back to the reality where you would curse and swear and come back for more like a hungry child that comes back to its mother.
I had my own share of those times. The doom forts on road to carentan which caused your enemies to rage quit, because they couldn't scale your walls with mortar fire.The Infantrys all powerfull ATGs tank reapers firepower with which you would put god fear into the axis tigers and panthers and a big grin on your own face.The blitzkrieg tactics which was real blitzkrieg, outspeeding outranging and outdamaging allied tanks with your own tanks.The Terror which was so annoying that would make sometimes people rage quit before the game even started. The defensive doctrine with which you could doom fort every map and mine and goliath the shi%! out of everything. Putting a goliath on top of a mine x10 was a very good anti tank tactic, and ofcourse let us not forget the last but not the least US armor company with double onboard rep pershings that could mow through whole axis companies at the start of the game.
Yes yes i know, everything of that was OP BUT the 50% of skill was still there! 3 good players vs 3 good players could produce ground shaking games.It was just the noobs that would get stomped but it is no different from today.
The youngs heart and spark of life was still present.The crossing times would decide the fate which is yet to come.


Balance:

Introduction of EIR R is also a 180 turn in the way the balance went.Balance out of chaos has been abandoned and gradualy we have now what is being implemented since 2009, balance out of balance.
What does that imply? Luck plays a lot smaller part to almost non existent in todays EIRs environment. Today your skill is 90% and luck 10% as opposed to 50-50 which was back in the chaos days. Some say this is good, some say this is bad.More luck involved in gameplay surely helped new players because sometimes they could produce those moments of wonder out of nowhere with the OP unit, and even the veterans could find themselves surprised in a battle by their UP unit, resulting in a twist of sides on the battlefield in the favour for the new player - but when the skill kicked in the new player in the end would be dominated by the veteran.
Today where balance is as hard as a brick a veteran will totaly dominate a newbie. Luck does not play its part because balance is 'balanced'.If you know the rules of EIR, the stats, the quirks, the little things which makes a game of EIR an EIR game you can be 99% sure that you have a win in your hand.
OP units have been brought to a halt, UP units have been buffed.Similar units have been brought to different sides to patch up the holes.New players cannot produce moments of flair based on luck because there are no blatantly OP units which they can utilise in their newbiness.Veterans rule the EIR world with their iron hard grip of stats.
EIR has become a game of chess - it has matured, it is older, wiser but it has lost its boyish flamboyance- the loving heart of a child that does not yet know the real world and it became a cold blooded ruthless emotionless machine overlord which sits on its throne and looks down upon us A Deus ex machina - man out of machine brings a new meaning here. A EIR ex machina, everything perfect - motionless which can be manipulated by the observer.The God of EIR is dead, long live the new God of Eir!
Who will rule the EIR throne? Who will be the king and who the queen?
Do you have what it takes to be the new EIR overlord?





Balance vs Unbalance, which is better and why?

[skaffa]

wall of text
tldr

[marda145]

tldr

[nugnugx]

redding is teh hrd?

[Scotzmen]

What he basically said was:

Unbalenced was more emotional and phycological. Full of OP units and Over powered units. Becuase of the latter, the game was hbased on 50% skill, and 50% luck basically. He also refered to it as

The youngs heart and spark of life was still present.The crossing times would decide the fate which is yet to come.

Balance is bland and boring, very little is UP and OP and its more 90% skill and 10% luck. Skilled players absolutly roll newbies. Then put some inspirational fail speech at the end along these lines.

A EIR ex machina, everything perfect - motionless which can be manipulated by the observer.The God of EIR is dead, long live the new God of Eir!
Who will rule the EIR throne? Who will be the king and who the queen?
Do you have what it takes to be the new EIR overlord?

[nugnugx]

Then put some inspirational fail speech at the end along these lines.

lol

[Heartmann]

Okey, yea skaffa is right this wall of text is to long dude, your repeating yourself a lot. First part states the old ways of a supposed 50-50 gameplay experience of which 50 is luck and 50 is skill. And how that is both good and bad im the sense of a new guy playing a platform fighter game on a console. They can mash buttons ans get lucky MORE often than todays EiR, according to u.

But id rather take a game that rewards me for getting my skill level upp then a game of chance which a luck based game is. I dont play with dice^^

The question is not wether the old vs the new is better but rather do u have what it takes to adapt or not?

[nugnugx]

The question is not wether the old vs the new is better but rather do u have what it takes to adapt or not?

umm if i'm here then the logical conclusion is that i adapted. The question still is  which is better for playing.   Unbalanced with luck or balanced based only on skill.

Those of you who played long enough blood bowl know already that luck in there is like 60%. Sometimes the dices can totaly fu** you up

[shockcoil]

l2paragraph pls. I'm sure it's a very good article but... I can't bring myself to read that

[Heartmann]

umm if i'm here then the logical conclusion is that i adapted. The question still is  which is better for playing.   Unbalanced with luck or balanced based only on skill.

Those of you who played long enough blood bowl know already that luck in there is like 60%. Sometimes the dices can totaly fu** you up

acctullty no it still means can u adapt tonot relying on the dice? Can u become better and not having to rely on a less prepared opponent, since in the end i dont belive in luck. You can either be well preparedor not, preparing the resources avilable to your maximum advantage. Apart from that its left to probability. ^^

[Tymathee]

I love to read and i aint touchin that nug. you gotta make it a better read if you expect to get any real feedback

[jackmccrack]

Back when everything about doctrines worked, it was cool.

Now we have doctrines that *mostly* work, haha gay. (doctrines say things but don't do them)

[Jstek]

acctullty no it still means can u adapt tonot relying on the dice? Can u become better and not having to rely on a less prepared opponent, since in the end i dont belive in luck. You can either be well preparedor not, preparing the resources avilable to your maximum advantage. Apart from that its left to probability. ^^

The wall of text only further reinforces the need for a Automatcher even more so today than in the past.
Vet stomp noobs.  Noobs leave.  Nothing new comes in the game.  Game dies.  Simple.  So fucking implement it!

[Dnicee]

Might help, but people would still do this in vent...

- Hey, wanna stack that game?

- ohhh, hell yeah dude!

- lol, you should see my company for this game

- haha, why? What have you done this time?

- I only got snipers and jeeps in my company

- lolololol, fail dude!

- are you ready to join?

- lets do it!

- 1, 2 , 3....GOGOGO join!

- lol, this is going to be so epic!


The random team on the other side writing in the launcher

Sweet! Its full, yay!

This is going to be soo much fun, especially now when its random teams!


10 min into the game

F**k this man, this is bullshit!

first player drops...


The stacked team writes to "all"

You guys played good, you were just unlucky with your fail teammate =/

Cant believe we won... Anyway man, we thought this would be even.

GG


The stackers talks in vent

- HAHAHA, Dudeeee!

- lololol

- They failed so hard, fuckin noobs tbh!

- lets stack again, this new system is soo awesome.

- People cant see when we stack! AHHAHAHAHAH



This will go on and on and on until the end of EiR!

soo go for it!

[jackmccrack]

jstek, don't you think automatch would be difficult to code given our small dev team?

[acker]

jstek, don't you think automatch would be difficult to code given our small dev team?

The standard response for the past year has been that automatch would be released with the Warmap*. I don't know whether the goalposts have shifted or not, given constraints.

*It might have been "built into", not "released with". Time to find quotes.

edit: Nope, Can't find quotes.

[brn4meplz]

The standard response is that we would eventually like to have an Automatch.

However until that time you have to settle for hidden game rooms and good old make it yourself stuff!

Beware the Phantom Stacks!

[EIRRMod]

Original post summed up in two words.

Extreme OP and UP vs Balance

Thank you for your time.

[Heartmann]

Look stacks and trollz will always exsist, the way to handle it is to not play them. Do a black list, i have one of smurf names and anytime i see then i dont join, and if its something gay in game that is abuse oralike then drop problem solved

[EliteGren]

Look stacks and trollz will always exsist, the way to handle it is to not play them. Do a black list, i have one of smurf names and anytime i see then i dont join, and if its something gay in game that is abuse oralike then drop problem solved

Can you post that list? Need more lulzy smurfnames