Sniper vs Storms

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[tank130]

Id say, this is a particular strategy Blitz users will use, WHY are you trying to stop this particular tactic. This just adds a brick to the wall of tactics you can employ to defeat your enemy, you are punishing a tactic, not the unit itself.

Of course it is a tactic. You would be a fucking moron not use a 300 MP cloaked unit to kill a 540MP / 200 Muni supported unit with very little effort at all. The reason you never saw it before is because hardly anyone is even aware that it works.

Even Leo had to set up a test to confirm it works. His first look at the RGD's he thought the sniper would decloak the Storms first. After a test and some further RGD review, he confirmed they are the same.

Even thought this game has been around for 7 years, the community, balance team, and Dev team still find inconsistencies and errors that need to be corrected.

[tank130]

IMHO nothing needs changing here. If storms DO decloak the sniper before they uncloak themselves then it is fine also, there is an inherent balance here since the american sniper also uncloaks paks before he gets uncloaked.

Sniper - 540MP / 200 Muni
Pak - 380MP / 150 Muni

Sniper should still have the advantage

[tank130]

I know a few people here love to theory craft, so let's just cover that all in one post shall we.

Scenario one
Sniper is sitting unsupported. Enemy stumbles upon it and kills it.
Result – tuff shit, do not leave it unsupported

Scenario Two
Sniper is supported, but gets spotted during a push.
Result – tuff shit, that’s part of the game

Scenario Three
Enemy knows you have a sniper (because you actually used the fucking thing.)
Deploys Storms to find it.

Problem : how to find and kill sniper.

Step one: Any good player will support the sniper, so look for the support.
Examples: Empty halftrack siting there doing nothing = Sniper very close by

You are a cloaked storm who can see the enemy support units, but they cannot see you. Just keep close to the support. One of two things is going to happen. You may stumble upon the sniper; then you kill it. OR, you wait until the sniper fires again; then kill it. Keeping in mind the skillful allied player is going to have that famous HT so close to the sniper, you are going to be close to it as well….

If the allied player is lucky, he will be inside the HT before you can kill him. You will loose your 300 MP counter. However, if he does not have a HT, nothing on the field can kill you or suppress you faster than you can kill the sniper.

Hint: It is a safe gamble that the sniper is going to be between the HT and the enemy unit he is going to shoot. You just need to be between the sniper and HT, or beside it. The HT is not going to be really close to the sniper or it would be spotted by the enemy units and destroyed.

See….. we can all theory craft all day long, but the end result is a 300 MP cloaked unit able to kill a 540MP / 200 Muni supported unit with very little effort at all.

The Micro it takes to use the storms on the sniper is the same micro it takes to use a sniper. So once again we are comparing a 540MP / 200 Muni unit being decloaked at the same rate as a 300 MP unit.

[LeoPhone]

plz lock this thread now.

[Demon767]

hmmmm your theory crafting made me think more,

i do guess i see your point

for me i see its however you wanna see it from, should storms do that?? should they be cloaked just before they hit the sniper??

none of those questions you can answer, so i guess using resources and all that shazam could work

i would still see motocycles more effective pop + resource wise

and i think its best not to touch that tactic, because the fact that they have to land ontop of the sniper to reveal him, i have no worries about that part. Doesnt seem anything of OP that to me, if we had a company that solely did that against puddins snipers, that would be an epic game and make it a difficult game and all that jazz.

so yeh, as it stands i still believe it shouldnt be touched.

hi5 for civilised conversation.

[tank130]

plz lock this thread now.

I see you argue against Bar suppression and you want to lock this thread.....tsk tsk Leo. Try not to look too much like an axis fan boy.....lol

[Evilnrg]

Sniper is a Glass cannon  they got a different role.
a sniper can kill far more units then a stormtrooper if use correctly.
besides dont use a sniper as front line. use inf, infront and snipe from behind

[NightRain]

Sniper is a Glass cannon  they got a different role.
a sniper can kill far more units then a stormtrooper if use correctly.
besides dont use a sniper as front line. use inf, infront and snipe from behind

+1

[PonySlaystation]

Evilnrg nailed this thread.

[Mysthalin]

Can somebody please tell me why snipers getting killed, and fast, by 270 MP 30 FU (tripple bike/jeep rush) is perfectly fine, but there's a massive hissy fit over somebody taking tonnes of time and using a reasonable amount of micro with their 300 MP unit to kill the same sniper?

[tank130]

Can somebody please tell me why snipers getting killed, and fast, by 270 MP 30 FU (tripple bike/jeep rush) is perfectly fine, but there's a massive hissy fit over somebody taking tonnes of time and using a reasonable amount of micro with their 300 MP unit to kill the same sniper?

Simple:

A motorcycle can not cloak. Therefore you see it coming and can destroy it. Your supported sniper is protected by the support.

A cloaked storm squad is not detectable by your support and will decloak your sniper at the exact same instance that your sniper decloaks the storms. The sniper is dead before any of your support units can counter the Storms.

[LeoPhone]

then do not support a support unit with another support unit. its a fail strategy.

you don't cry either if two MGs still lose to a sniper. BUT MY MG THATS BEING SNIPED WAS COVERED BY THE OTHER MG!!!

[TheVolskinator]

Tank. While I don't doubt this is all grounded in good reason, even I usually don't have too too much trouble with storms being used as a countersnipe. I just keep my screen moving about and my sniper has an HT and a jeep by default, the jeep either providing Los (for mobility's sake most players wont cloak until theyre reasonably close to wherever the hell they're going) or driving in random circles. Hell, Ive cock-blocked goliaths (fail 3v3 on red ball two days ago) even from you with the jeep, while being used in concert with storms from someone else.

It pays to stay mobile, I cant count the number of lolWTF moments when my sniper was squashed by a P4 that wasnt even looking for it. You can only evade so many things when you're slower then everything else (while cloaked). Oh, and decent sniper users will keep mines handy--when a mine randomly explodes and you don't see anything there, chances are either a sniper, storm, or (horribly broken) moving cloak fal ran over it.

I don't see this as a problem, as nilla storms are few and far between. Their main use lies in alpha-strike pairs of dual shreck'd calls, not lol'ing around trying to ambush BAR riflemen or snipers with only rifles and maybe a medkit.

[tank130]

then do not support a support unit with another support unit. its a fail strategy.

you don't cry either if two MGs still lose to a sniper. BUT MY MG THATS BEING SNIPED WAS COVERED BY THE OTHER MG!!!

HUH........

wtf does that even mean Leo.

Sniper usage 101: always have your sniper supported!!!!!!

Problem -  300 MP unit is able to evade all sniper support and kill the 540MP / 200 Muni

Dual MG42 - (270MP / 40 Muni) x 2 = 540MP / 80Muni
Sniper - 540MP / 200 Muni

The sniper is still a more costly unit and should win that engagement. Your argument fails.

[LeoPhone]

price has nothing to do with this.
this is about knowing how to counter storms.

what do you do if double storm schrecks keep blowing up your atgs?

[BigDick]

yelling at my team in vent and ragequit? 

[Mysthalin]

The bike is a lot faster, decloaks the sniper from a lot further and 3 of them will take out the sniper before any support units do anything to the bikes as well. And it's a lot easier to just charge in with 3 bikes than it is to slowly and meticulously micro your way around every single unit that might decloak you in a slow 4-man squad.

[tank130]

price has nothing to do with this.
this is about knowing how to counter storms.

what do you do if double storm schrecks keep blowing up your atgs?

This is NOT a discussion about countering storms. Not one tiny, itty, bitty bit. In fact, as you posted earlier in this thread, the same issue is caused by ANY cloaking unit.

This issue is 100% about a 300 MP, 5 pop unit having the exact same cloaking powers and De-cloak sight range as a 540MP / 200 Muni, 7 pop unit.

I could be wrong, but I strongly assume the axis cloaked units can take a shit load more damage than the allied sniper......

The bike is a lot faster, decloaks the sniper from a lot further and 3 of them will take out the sniper before any support units do anything to the bikes as well.

If you are using your sniper properly, it should be behind your support weapons, For example - ATG, Bars, HMG, etc. I have survived triple bike attacks. My sniper took damage, but I was able to kill 2 bikes very easily and got the third just in the nick of time.

I also believe there is a video out there of a sniper dodging a bike by circling it. It is impossible to doge the storms in anyway.

And it's a lot easier to just charge in with 3 bikes than it is to slowly and meticulously micro your way around every single unit that might decloak you in a slow 4-man squad.

Microing 3 bikes around good support is not an easy task either. However, the micro it takes to use storms is the same micro it takes to use a sniper. So now we are back to comparing cloaked units.

[PonySlaystation]

This is NOT a discussion about countering storms.

It is, because if a player managed to get his storms past all your frontline units, all your infantry and HMGs etc that you should have infront of your sniper to cover it then that clearly shows some lack in the way you support your sniper.

The stormtroopers are a big squad so they're easy to detect and move slow. They can kill a Calliope because they can sneak on the sides of the map but a stormtrooper squad that actually gets past all your defense and kills your sniper - that doens't happen if you support it properly.

[tank130]

It is, because if a player managed to get his storms past all your frontline units, all your infantry and HMGs etc that you should have infront of your sniper to cover it then that clearly shows some lack in the way you support your sniper.

The stormtroopers are a big squad so they're easy to detect and move slow. They can kill a Calliope because they can sneak on the sides of the map but a stormtrooper squad that actually gets past all your defense and kills your sniper - that doens't happen if you support it properly.

this is just stupid.......

You consider being able to sneak up and kill a calliope ok, but letting storms sneak up behind your sniper support is bad.........lol
Storms are not going to survive taking out the sniper if it is supported, but who gives a fuck. It has just taken out a unit valued at almost double the cost of the storm.

If the storms were such a big squad so easily detected, then why can't the sniper detect it before they detect the sniper?

Why would I run my storms right up the middle to be killed by the sniper support. Iwould run them up the side of the map (just like you do for a callie) and come up behind the sniper.


You really failed at this one pony.....lol