Valexandes
Donator
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« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2012, 08:00:43 am » |
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p4 has higher ROF
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the nashorn is like a kid with a giant penis, it has no idea how to use it or where to point it most of the time but it could still fuck you
Your mom, and your grandma wont know....
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| BigDick
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« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2012, 08:06:10 am » |
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p4 has higher ROF
why you lazy scrub can't provide some numbers to prove your point p4 fires average 17% faster that hardly makes up for the need to kill 50% more guys and shermans much much better splash your turn  |
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LeoPhone
Honoured Member
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« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2012, 08:08:42 am » |
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thers also volksgrenadiers and support weapons
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| BigDick
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« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2012, 08:17:44 am » |
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and the more expensive mainline infantry means killing 1 gren is not just equal as killing 1.5 rifles but more like killing almost 2 rifles (1.8 to be exact) oh and i forgot about this part (because its very situational) Shermans may be a tad better but there are more threats to them on the battlefield.
The more prevalent AT abilities of axis can easily handle the shermans.
i can't agree on that cos currently the most threat to p4s are the cheap hellcats (that can single handle them without taking any damage) and M10s his turn |
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
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« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2012, 08:27:24 am » |
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Except that riflemen aren't the only allied infantry, and grenadiers aren't the only axis infantry to exist, bigdick.
Please, I know you are actually capable of coherent thought, don't just shout LALALALA RIFLES AND GRENS RIFLES AND GRENS and ignore everything else when making an argument.
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| BigDick
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« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2012, 09:00:05 am » |
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added panther and hetzer (since people always talks about awesome panther/hetzer ai) - may be interesting for some  |
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nikomas
Shameless Perv
Posts: 4286
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« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2012, 10:25:42 am » |
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lol, the panther does have awesome splash indeed  And who the heck calls the panther a "Good" AI tank? Competent maybe, but not good. |
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"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing—after they've tried everything else." The officer is considerably better than a riflemen squad at carrying weapons. Officers have good accuracy so they will hit most targets. |
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| BigDick
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« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2012, 10:28:38 am » |
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lol, the panther does have awesome splash indeed And who the heck calls the panther a "Good" AI tank? Competent maybe, but not good. last i remember panther is great for taking out infantry, you can usually get about 1 kill every 1-3 shots, if they bunch maybe more. my blitz panthers always come away with like 10-20 inf kills.
ok i have to admit no real competent eir guy |
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LeoPhone
Honoured Member
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« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2012, 10:30:06 am » |
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sniper splash is 0.
omg its so bad vs inf.
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| BigDick
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« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2012, 10:34:17 am » |
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leo we already know that a panther snipes a non moving guy each avarage 12 seconds and a moving each avg. 23-24 seconds at best (if it fires nonstop)
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
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« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2012, 10:36:30 am » |
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Bigdick, nobody ever claimed that the panther kills infantry with it's splash. They've made the VERY REASONABLE claim that it kills them by sniping them - which, at a base 0.6 acc vs infantry it is perfectly good at.  Added an overlay of what a grenadier squad with it's standard spacing would enjoy upon getting hit by a sherman shot(assuming a hit on the middle member). You'll notice that if you transfer it over, and add two more riflemen, the P4 will cover a similar amount of men with it's splash. |
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CafeMilani
Aloha
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« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2012, 10:38:55 am » |
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put your overley on the p4's splash, mysth. youll see that the P4 will cover a similar amount of men with it's splash. is wrong |
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« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 10:43:17 am by aloha622 »
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Ahnungsloser
Donator
Posts: 1447
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« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2012, 10:39:18 am » |
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Bigdick, could you add the Pershing and Tiger splash to this? (For a overall overview) Please.  |
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 9th Armoured Engineers |
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| BigDick
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« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2012, 10:40:07 am » |
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Added an overlay of what a grenadier squad with it's standard spacing would enjoy upon getting hit by a sherman shot(assuming a hit on the middle member). You'll notice that if you transfer it over, and add two more riflemen, the P4 will cover a similar amount of men with it's splash.
i have to look that up in a good moment but if your spaces fit 1. you have to add 2 more (wider) for a rifles/ranger/airbornesquad 2. the damage dealed is still 75% higher in the outer circle |
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
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« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2012, 10:43:19 am » |
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1. The spacing for AB/rangers/rifles etc. is smaller to accomodate for retarded squad AI.
2. Damage is higher against higher HP per man squads.
Now, I don't deny the sherman is better at dealing out splash damage so, with a supporting rapid-fire weapon (such as a .50cal) it will out-do the P4 in killing power. If, however, looking at solo killing power where sniping the enemy soldiers is the plan of action - the P4 will outdo the sherman with it's faster ROF. Yes, yes - allied squads are larger, all that jazz - but don't be daft and compare only grens and rifles. There's also volks vs tommies (same number of guys, tommies being more expensive), and the non-mainline infantry, as well as the support weapon crews.
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| BigDick
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« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2012, 11:11:30 am » |
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1. The spacing for AB/rangers/rifles etc. is smaller to accomodate for retarded squad AI.
if they are not in cover they got exactly the same squad formation plan just with 2 men more means more spread out i need to check the cover later cos it could be that they are not wider spread out in cover to make the usage of cover more even which would actually be a positive point cos it eliminates the downside of bigger squads to find cover 2. Damage is higher against higher HP per man squads.
and since when grens have 75% per man more hp than rifles? |
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« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 11:19:13 am by BigDick »
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Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
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« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2012, 11:22:23 am » |
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1. They're not more spread out. At the very worst they'd have the exact same spread pattern just a larger one.
2. They don't have 75% more - but the fact remains that you're going to take 4 shots to kill a rifle guy with the outer-rim splash, while taking 3 for the grenadier guy.
Lo and behold, that's 18 seconds of fire for the sherman, and 20 seconds of fire for the P4. If only that were actually relevant to what happens in the game.
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| Poppi
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« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2012, 11:23:32 am » |
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is that sherman 75 or 76 splash.
b/c p4 will beat 75mm sherman and 76 splash will be much smaller
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« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 04:46:56 pm by Poppi »
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| BigDick
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« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2012, 01:15:06 pm » |
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Bigdick, could you add the Pershing and Tiger splash to this? (For a overall overview) Please. sure sorry for being a bit late did not had access to the software before  the grey shade are damage values in % from base damage (137.5 for the heavies and 87.5 for the mediums) so the middle circle of tiger/pershing splash deals still more damage than the inner circle of p4/sherman but i started with black being 87.5 on my first sherman/p4 comparison i have to admit i was a bit surprised by myself seeing not just numbers but graphical |
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« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 01:17:02 pm by BigDick »
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Groundfire
EIRR community manager
EIR Veteran Posts: 8511
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« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2012, 01:29:38 pm » |
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Did you take into account that nearly every allied unit has about 2/3 the health of every Axis unit?
Riflemen = 55 HP
Grens = 80 HP
Makes sense that the P4 would do less damage in their splash.
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