possibly AB hotfix discussion

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[Groundfire]

Ok gang, here's the situation.

Right now, we have a AB draft in the works but as you all know so well, we like to take our sweet sweet time with these things. Haste has never been our strong suite.

I want to get the community's opinion on this. AB is a disaster IMO. I dont think it does enough for the player's investment. Being as the AB draft might take a bit, i'm trying to come up with solutions.

We just happen to have some of the old AB T4s lying around in the attrib that could be re-linked with the current AB.

These old T4s are largely stat based T4s that I think have been balanced enough to be reintroduced for game play. It is something that I can do on my own if we really want a stop gap AB fix.

I also believe I have the capability of combining old T3s and T2s to the current T4s to give them a buff if that is the route we would like to go.


Would you guys like to see this happen? Post your opinions here.

Just for reference, the T4s are:

Easy Company:
-10% weapon cooldown
+10% Health for AB
+5 Sight

Airborne Elite:
+18% range
+18% Health
+18% Sight

Raid Assault:
+35% damage for AB

T2 or T3 AB abilities still in the attrib:

AT eagles:
+20% RR penetration

Hard 'n Fast:
-10% received accuracy


And we have a couple others like old AB camo and old Operation Overlord which is basically a copy of the Infantry version.


Discuss.

[smurfORnot]

Airborne Elite:
+18% range
+18% Health
+18% Sight

does this mean that now you outrange some tanks with your ab,and you outrange axis inf? 

[Groundfire]

Yeah, that one is still alittle broken. 

We dont like range abilities. The biggest part of why old AB elite was broken tho was because it had an absurd amount of other abilities stacking on top of the AB. I think in particular, hard and fast and AT eagles.

[Spartan_Marine88]

THOU SHALT NOT FUCK WITH RANGE (except on arty)

[Mukip]

Hard 'n fast was a good one because aggressive infantry-based Airborne benefitted a lot from it, especially the riflemen and engineers who gained some ability to keep up with the more durable Airborne in assaults.  Also lets Airborne fight stationary in cover.  Do eet!

AT Eagles was the good ol' power combo with AB Elite, it also used to affect Airborne ATG's.  This doc doesn't need to come back, RR penetration is good and buffing ATG penetration allowed Airborne to maximise munitions efficiency by not purchasing AP rounds, but still penetrating Panthers from the front.

AB Elite along with the blitz doc improved barrels were total BS.  You could kite tanks, roflstomp Ostwinds and, with AT Eagles, wear down Tigers and KTs with ease. 

Raid Assault was good for Leeroy companies and I think they deserve a comeback.  The thing about old Raid Assault is that you used to just have Airborne and you had to give them severe buffs to make their carbines useful against infantry.  Then AB Rifles with BARs got added and it all went crazy.  Now they're gone it's all good.

My biggest gripe with AB is the Airborne Riflemen actually, it splits the Airborne doctrine so that you have to buy multiple, separate doctrine upgrades for two units which are very similar to each other.  Just remove them and focus on the regular Airborne (reduce their infantry pool to 7).  Move the Airborne medic to tier 2 with the sniper and add the garands as a tier 3 unlock in the bottom tree.  I never saw the point of this unit.

Remove the drop time bonus from Airborne Overhead and make it a T1 doc instead of Tier3.   

The present doctrines seem all over the place at the moment. This is how I'd do it:

-General infantry buffing tree:  t1: Advanced Scouting, T2: Hard n' Fast, T3 ? (support weapon buff?), T4: Easy Company or AB Elite (without Range bonus)
*A generalist aggressive tree for Airborne based on heavy infantry usage.  'Modified equipment' doesn't really fit in here because of munitions issues.

-Leeroy tree:  T1: Airborne Overhead (without drop time bonus), T2: modified Equipment, T3: (reduced drift, drop timer, airborne pool cost reduction to 5-6), T4 Raid Assault
*kekekeke.  A more elite infantry tree based on doing heavy damage with relatively small amounts of infantry, in contrast to the above tree which is more spammy.  Can be used to play a 'pure' AB army.

-Defensive tree: T1: Improved Defences, T2: Eagles Nest, T3:?, T4: Night Raid
*This tree is OK as it stands, but the present tier 3 is out of place here.

Doctrines:
T1's:  Aerial Support teams, Recon, Airborne
T2's: Defensive Equipment, Strafe, Airborne sniper and medic
T3's: Asymmetric Warfare (Haven't used or seen this yet tbh), bombing run, Garands.
(Yes no Airborne rifles)

[8thRifleRegiment]

35% damage is a little escessive since the AB mg is already really epic at most ranges, i think 20% would be appropriate

[Mukip]

Or just don't have it affect support weapons.  The 35% buff was so that you could drop garand airborne and expect to kill stuff and a supporting squad of airborne RR that wouldnt be overwhelmed by itself.  I think it also came with a 35% health buff too iirc.

[smurfORnot]

I kinda do want ab elite now 

[jackmccrack]

Easy Company looks weak

[smurfORnot]

well,compared to ab elite,it's weaker in every aspect,it would be no brainier to pick elite,dunno why would any one pick Easy.

[jackmccrack]

Easy Company? More like....


Hard Company

[NightRain]

Give airborne M1 carbines rifle training, like the 50% less reload and cooldown and one would see if they were useful afterwards haha.

[DarkSoldierX]

Buffing AB squads quite a bit there. Especially on the 35% more damage and 18% more range.

[smurfORnot]

do ab elite buffs apply for everyone? cuz it's not specified that it's only for ab :p

[Mukip]

It was just for Airborne squads.

[smurfORnot]

and ab support weapons?

[Tymathee]

Easy Company:
-10% weapon cooldown
+10% Health for AB
+5 Sight

That's a T4? That's more a T3. Even some of the curret T4's (if they worked) are better.

Airborne Elite:
+18% range
+18% Health
+18% Sight

thats nice, take out the range and it's a borderline T3 though. In place of range make it cooldown for AB and AB Riflemen.

Then for support weapons
ATG = -18% cooldown or reload.
Mortar = -18% scatter
HMG = +18% suppression or accuracy.

would make a good all around doc for AB lovers.

Raid Assault:
+35% damage for AB

could be fun, especially if its Ab and  ab riflemen. just make it so its only for the garand (like make a separate gun much like the TR zook) rather than the squad. this way nades and stickies aren't affected as well.

T2 or T3 AB abilities still in the attrib:

AT eagles:
+20% RR penetration

This one is a given and should've never been taken out. It's been in since eir 1.6.

Hard 'n Fast:
-10% received accuracy

by itself or along with others? i guess its pretty good, especially when they start moving.

And we have a couple others like old AB camo and old Operation Overlord which is basically a copy of the Infantry version.

ab camo is kinda meh, I wouldn't mind it and overlord, i hate mirror docs, especially if one faction already has it. AB sniper and/or sniper needs some fun buffs.

[smurfORnot]

what buffs do you want on sniper? He has fire up,makes it very hard to catch him with bikes etc.

[8thRifleRegiment]

yea, anymore buffs for sniper would make it ridiculous, the unit which would be nice would be

top t4
death from aboveairbourne recive garrands
Garrands 30% less cooldown
25% more accuracy in cover
-20s droptime
Fire exaustion -50% duration

[Groundfire]

I cant alter or take out things that already exist with these T4s. They will only effect the units that existed at the time of their implementation. So things like the AB sniper will not be effected and probably not Airborne rifles either.

This might be a very cobble together gerry rigged type deal. I can see linking up Easy Company with what already exists for Death from Above giving you something like this:

New Death from Above:
-20s drop time
Airborne get garands
Fire up -60s
-10% weapon cooldown
+10% Health for AB
+5 Sight

That would be well adjusted not OP T4. Death from above was already very good with it's drop timer, it just needed a little push.



I would have to do some tests with this. Afaik, it should work, I dont think it's been tried before.