*

Account

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 10:34:40 pm

Login with username, password and session length

Resources

Recent posts

[March 22, 2024, 01:44:39 am]

[March 10, 2024, 03:58:45 pm]

[March 08, 2024, 12:13:38 am]

[March 08, 2024, 12:13:13 am]

[March 08, 2024, 12:12:54 am]

[December 30, 2023, 08:00:58 pm]

[February 04, 2023, 11:46:41 am]

[December 25, 2022, 11:36:26 am]

[December 14, 2022, 12:10:06 am]

[September 22, 2022, 06:57:30 am]
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Evangelics in Sweden FTW!  (Read 42135 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
PonySlaystation Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136



« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2012, 08:53:22 am »

Not true, their moral values are as varied as those of religious people as is their capability for common sense.

Except religious people often base their moral values on a book.
Logged

Sharks are not monsters Henley, they are cute, cuddly and misunderstood. They love humans. sometimes they love TOO much. They love people so much that sometimes their kisses separate people into two flailing pieces which are consumed by other sharks in a frenzy of peace and joy.
Sachaztan Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2667



« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2012, 10:36:02 am »

no it didn't, it had more to do with land, wealth and power. they just used religion as a juxtaposition.

just like some arabs are using islam as an excuse to blow stuff up

Those had more to do with getting an influx of wealth and access to trade lanes in order for the Church and Nobility of Europe to pull themselves out of an economic dead end, and it worked.

You honestly and seriously believe that the hundreds of thousands of men, women and children that joined the crusade did so for money and power?
Logged

Demon posession is real and it's not funny, it's the creepiest thing you will ever experience.

I would also like to add I watch fox news everyday all day and will continue to watch it while being proud of that fact. I'm sure you enjoy your communist news network just as much.
Tymathee Offline
Donator
*
Posts: 9741



« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2012, 11:25:01 am »

You honestly and seriously believe that the hundreds of thousands of men, women and children that joined the crusade did so for money and power?

All of the ones that joined? no, the ones that started it? yes as well as some of the ones who joined it.

Who wouldn't want to go and slaughter people you feel are inferior to you and it's sactioned by the church! I mean c'mon...if the american government said "you can go and kill as many arabs in the name of God as you want and take their land" you dont' think some will do it just for the thrill of it lmao
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 11:26:57 am by Tymathee » Logged

"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"

Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
Sachaztan Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2667



« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2012, 02:08:06 pm »

All of the ones that joined? no, the ones that started it? yes as well as some of the ones who joined it.

Who wouldn't want to go and slaughter people you feel are inferior to you and it's sactioned by the church! I mean c'mon...if the american government said "you can go and kill as many arabs in the name of God as you want and take their land" you dont' think some will do it just for the thrill of it lmao

There's absolutely no power and wealth motivation for joining the crusades. Most that joined had to sell everything they owned to be able to afford it.

Seriously where do you get your ideas from?

http://historymedren.about.com/od/crusades/p/crusadesbasics.htm


"Crusader Motivations:

There were as many different reasons for crusading as there were crusaders, but the single most common reason was piety. To crusade was to go on pilgrimage, a holy journey of personal salvation. Whether that also meant giving up virtually everything and willingly facing death for God, bending to peer or family pressure, indulging blood lust without guilt, or seeking adventure or gold or personal glory depended entirely on who was doing the crusading."
Logged
Tymathee Offline
Donator
*
Posts: 9741



« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2012, 03:49:13 pm »

i could swear some of the motivations i said were in that sentence...i didn't say everyone did it for those reasons but omg look, they're there!

Note I said "SOME" not all, not most SOME of the ones that joined it.
Logged
DarkSoldierX Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3015



« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2012, 05:34:34 pm »

You honestly and seriously believe that the hundreds of thousands of men, women and children that joined the crusade did so for money and power?
I believe they are talking about the leaders of the crusades, not the fighters themselves.

Its like how a soldier can join to strengthen his country, while a politician secretly can push the war for his own personal gain in power.
Logged

two words
atgs and fireflies
Looks who's butthurt
*waiting* 4 DarkSoldierNoobiX pops up to prove how much shit the T17 is penetrating KTs back and Jagd front and how much better the ac/puma is penetrating m10 rear  Cool Cool Cool
Sachaztan Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2667



« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2012, 05:37:25 pm »

I believe they are talking about the leaders of the crusades, not the fighters themselves.

Its like how a soldier can join to strengthen his country, while a politician secretly can push the war for his own personal gain in power.

And without these hundreds of thousands of religions zealots would the crusades have ever happened?

Case in point, the crusades have VERY much to do with religion.
Logged
Spartan_Marine88 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4838



« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2012, 05:40:06 pm »

And without these hundreds of thousands of religions zealots would the crusades have ever happened?

Yes

as its rarely the zealots who start it. Its those above who do, it the guy who generally is in it for power doesn't start it most of those people are generally content with gathering together and ignore the outside world.


(fanatics tend to also be un-educated and indoctrinated)
Logged

Yes that's me, the special snowflake.
DarkSoldierX Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3015



« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2012, 05:42:59 pm »

And without these hundreds of thousands of religions zealots would the crusades have ever happened?

Case in point, the crusades have VERY much to do with religion.
Your missing AMPM's point, it has much to do with religion, but it wasn't religion itself that sparked it.

Like nukes have alot to do with science, but it wasn't science itself that sparked the creation of the nuke.
Logged
Vermillion_Hawk Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1282



« Reply #69 on: March 02, 2012, 05:50:47 pm »

Except religious people often base their moral values on a book.

I reallysdon't recall the part in the "book" where it says you are freely able to torture, maim, and otherwise kill for the hell of it like some psychopaths do. People need to start realizing that religion itself is not the cause but simply the excuse. That point seems to have been ignored in any reasonable argument put forth thus far.

In addition, Sach, you fail to mention at all that a large percentage of crusader knights were comprised of the former banditry and mercenary groups who had been generally having their way with Europe. In fact, one of the reasons the First Crusade began was to send them off to do something productive. Religion was used as an EXCUSE here, an excuse to gain an end.

All I'm really seeing from the opposing side here is a whole lot of minute nitpicking and a major avoidance of the main issue.
Logged

What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets.

- Andre Malraux

- Dracula
Spartan_Marine88 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4838



« Reply #70 on: March 02, 2012, 06:03:20 pm »

All I'm really seeing from the opposing side here is a whole lot of minute nitpicking and a major avoidance of the main issue.


Thats because that is all there really is. Humans act as humans do, we won't change. We will use every excuse we can to validate what ever we do, and people will believe and do what they want.

Whether or not you say your healing someones mind, or exercising demons from their body the truth is that your just a sick twisted fuck who likes stabbing someone with a hot jagged needle and found a way to get out of going to jail
Logged
Sachaztan Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2667



« Reply #71 on: March 02, 2012, 06:35:50 pm »



In addition, Sach, you fail to mention at all that a large percentage of crusader knights were comprised of the former banditry and mercenary groups who had been generally having their way with Europe. In fact, one of the reasons the First Crusade began was to send them off to do something productive. Religion was used as an EXCUSE here, an excuse to gain an end.


lololololololololol

And what would they be doing in the crusade if not for some manner of religious cause?

If they weren't religious fanatics (or hired by another fanatic) they would just stay home and abuse the manpower shortage that could be used to stop them from "having their way with europe".
Logged
Sachaztan Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2667



« Reply #72 on: March 02, 2012, 06:38:51 pm »


Thats because that is all there really is. Humans act as humans do, we won't change. We will use every excuse we can to validate what ever we do, and people will believe and do what they want.

Whether or not you say your healing someones mind, or exercising demons from their body the truth is that your just a sick twisted fuck who likes stabbing someone with a hot jagged needle and found a way to get out of going to jail

The problem is that religion is such an excellent tool for these twisted fucks to get other people that would otherwise be ordinary human beings to perform absolutely atrocious deeds.

I'm pretty sure there's no other tool so suited for this in the world than religion.
Logged
Vermillion_Hawk Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1282



« Reply #73 on: March 02, 2012, 06:39:59 pm »

What about greed or insanity?

You finally seem to understand that religion in this case is used as a tool. If a carpenter uses a hammer to create a house, and a murderer uses a hammer to kill someone, does this mean a hammer is in itself an evil thing?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 06:41:59 pm by Vermillion_Hawk » Logged
Spartan_Marine88 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4838



« Reply #74 on: March 02, 2012, 06:42:12 pm »

I'm pretty sure there's no other tool so suited for this in the world than religion.


Ideology, land (Alsace-Loraine), or just the good old fashioned they got more then we do have all been used to excess
Logged
Sachaztan Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2667



« Reply #75 on: March 02, 2012, 07:11:03 pm »

What about greed or insanity?

You finally seem to understand that religion in this case is used as a tool. If a carpenter uses a hammer to create a house, and a murderer uses a hammer to kill someone, does this mean a hammer is in itself an evil thing?

How about nukes? While nukes can be used as a deterrence against war I think we can all agree that the survival of mankind would have far better odds without them.

And without religion, the world would be a better place. You can get every single one of the positive aspects of religion from something far less detrimental to humanity. Ethics, community, hope...everything can be gotten some place else. And this is why religion as a tool is more harm than good. Just like the tool of nukes.
Logged
Sachaztan Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2667



« Reply #76 on: March 02, 2012, 07:13:32 pm »


Ideology, land (Alsace-Loraine), or just the good old fashioned they got more then we do have all been used to excess

Land is not a tool or any kind of ideology. It's a resource, just like the last part.

You have to be more specific about the ideology. What manner of ideology can tangent or trump the manner of which religion can be used to make ordinary people perform atrocious acts?
Logged
Sachaztan Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2667



« Reply #77 on: March 02, 2012, 07:23:42 pm »

Yes

as its rarely the zealots who start it. Its those above who do, it the guy who generally is in it for power doesn't start it most of those people are generally content with gathering together and ignore the outside world.


(fanatics tend to also be un-educated and indoctrinated)

no they wouldn't. Without the believers the crusades would have just stopped dead in their tracks. The church would have said "smite the heathens!" and everyone would just be like "Nah no thank you, I'd rather not sell all my possessions and head out to most likely die far away from home with none to very little possibility of gaining something in the material world from it"
Logged
Vermillion_Hawk Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1282



« Reply #78 on: March 02, 2012, 07:24:28 pm »

How about nukes? While nukes can be used as a deterrence against war I think we can all agree that the survival of mankind would have far better odds without them.

And without religion, the world would be a better place. You can get every single one of the positive aspects of religion from something far less detrimental to humanity. Ethics, community, hope...everything can be gotten some place else. And this is why religion as a tool is more harm than good. Just like the tool of nukes.

See, and here it boils down not to universal facts, but personal preference. Tools serve the purposes of their owners, and nothing more. How about we rid the world of guns as well, since they have the potential to harm mankind? Violence can be found somewhere else, right?

As I said, it's all personal preference. I don't recall any churches hosting slave labour facilities or internment camps, but rather food drives and homeless shelters.

Evidently you've had some sort of expereince that has disillusioned you towards a bias against organized religion, and that's fine. Just don't go spouting shit about it like Jesus himself regularly massacres entire cities' worth of people.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 07:26:17 pm by Vermillion_Hawk » Logged
PonySlaystation Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136



« Reply #79 on: March 02, 2012, 07:30:09 pm »

You finally seem to understand that religion in this case is used as a tool. If a carpenter uses a hammer to create a house, and a murderer uses a hammer to kill someone, does this mean a hammer is in itself an evil thing?

If the hammer convinced someone to commit murder then it is indeed a problem. However a hammer does no such thing and the term tool has many meanings, which is why you can't compare religion to a hammer.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

TinyPortal v1.0 beta 4 © Bloc
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.9 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.103 seconds with 35 queries.